Just returned from Myanmar, Visa on Arrival, and more......

My partner and myself just returned from Myanmar after an amazing trip. I wanted to post some information and tips that I thought might be useful to others:

Firstly, we entered Myanmar using the Visa-on-Arrival. I've read several posts saying this is not possible, well this is not true. If you book a tour or a few nights hotel stay with a licenced travel agent (doesn't have to be government run, we used Myanmar Tourex who were excellent) they can arrange the visa on arrival for you, simply send them by email a scan of your passport and a scanned passport photo, they email you a copy of the approval letter, which you show to the check-in staff at Bangkok. Once we arrived in Yangon the immigration guys were waiting for us and came and got us from the line up, took us to the front, took our passports and the passport photos we'd brought, and we had a visa in our passports in less than 5 minutes. In our situation it was difficult to get to an embassy, so the $20 each it cost on top of the $20 visa fee us to have the visa on arrival was well worth it. It even seemed like we were specially treated because of it; the immigration officer escorted us out of the immigration area, took us to Customs, said something to the Customs officer, and he waved us straight through no questions or searching through our cases like we were expecting (or maybe they are more relaxed than people think).

We had also read that we shouldn't go to Myanmar in July because of the rain. Again not true in our case anyway. In the southern part (including Yangon) you can expect rain several times a day, but it was usually short downpours so we'd just shelter for a few minutes or walk with umbrellas. The northern areas though including Bagan and Mandalay don't get much rain during this time. We had no rain in Bagan, and just a morning shower in Mandalay. Our guide in Bagan said it doesn't usually rain much there until September/October, and even then not a lot. It was VERY hot and humid everywhere, so we usually went back to the hotel after lunch each day and relaxed for a couple hours before heading back out in the late afternoon when it was cooler.

Like most people, we were concerned about carrying large amounts of cash with us so we decided to pre-book our accomodations, flights, and guides before leaving home and paid by credit card online. We used Myanmar Tourex, who we found to be very professional and accomodating of our requests, and as far as we could find out they are not affiliated with the government. We also thought they were very good value compared to other agents we received quotes from. They have an office in Singapore, so they are able to accept Paypal payments. By paying for this upfront we just needed to carry spending money, which was far more comfortable than carring over $1000 each. As for spending money, we averaged about $125 per person per week eating at mid-priced restaurants, tipping our guides and drivers around $3-$5 a day each, and buying quite a few souvenirs. We asked our guides to change money for us as they got a better rate than we would have gotten at the hotels (and I'm sure they even make a bit on it too which was fine with us).

Something we also tended to do was to try to buy small items from the children or young mothers selling things in the tourist areas. You will find that some people will follow you asking for money, or women holding babies will approach you. We made a point of only handing over cash in return for some kind of goods to discourage begging. We never paid more than K1000 (under $1), and for this we bought packs of postcards, lacquerware pots, small stone/wood carvings, bracelets & necklaces, and more, infact we now have a huge stock of small presents to give friends and family, and it was worth spending the $1 to see the happiness on the faces when the children sold us something. In Bagan we also bought some of the sand paintings by local artists, some of these are beautiful and we saw some for sale in Yangon galleries for over $500, we paid $25 for two direct from the artist - you'll see lots for sale outside the temples, some better than others.

If you want to take some cheap pens, soap, small bottles of shampoo (we took ours from the hotel every day and gave it all away), any kinds of make-up, perfume, notebooks, and any other everyday items they will be greatly appreciated especially in the countryside, just be discrete otherwise you'll be suddenly surrounded by excited kids!

If anyone has any questions or would like more information I'll be happy to answer.

What did the Tour cost you BTW? How many days were you with them, did they provide the Transportation, was planes involved or a big tour bus, and was it at Guesthouses or Hotels?

Thanks...

The tour was about $650 per person for a week, and that included airport pick-up, all hotels which were 4 star and all very good, flights from Yangon-Bagan-Mandalay-Yangon, a locally stationed guide and driver with our own private car with aircon at each place for about 8 hours a day, and all entry fees for sightseeing. I know it is better to try and do more yourself, but when we had a tight schedule this was the best way for us to make sure we got to do as much as possible.

I understand and thanks....sounds like a great trip...thats what counts...

Thanks for the helpful post.

What hotels did you stay in?

In Yangon we stayed at the Parkroyal, which was in a good location (plus next to it is a small mall that sells snacks, drinks, beer etc so we could bring that back to the room rather than pay hotel prices) and has cheap internet $1 for 15 mins or $2 per hour I think it was, and in addition the room service menu was pretty cheap (we were too tired at the end of the trip to go out, fish & chips for $6 was great!). In Bagan we stayed at the Tharabar gate hotel, gorgeous gardens and the best room we had on the trip, a couple of restaurants in the vicinity so you're not forced to eat at the hotel (though it looked pretty good), the one thing with the Tharabar was that the pool was closed for repair, but it is probably open again by now. In Mandalay we stayed at the Mandalay Hill Hotel - nice hotel, but restaurants were expensive for us and it is a little way away from anywhere else to eat, so we took a trishaw (there's usually one waiting outside) into town and ate there at some of the places we found in the LP. I'd recommend all of these hotels, especially the Parkroyal and Tharabar.

I have stayed at the Tharabar gate, its is a very nice property, outside of the luxury Ngapali beach resorts, its was the nicest. The pool is great, sorry it was under renovation.

FYI-

There are a few properties that if you stay at least 2 nights, you can take a Cash Advance, $100 USD per night, and the Tharabar gate is one of them, as is the Sedona, and other High End places. There is a 8% fee as well on the transaction. They also accept Credit cards, so you can splurge, get money, and be on your way.

They Take Amex TC as well, for a fee...

Wandering around giving away "cheap pens,soap, shampoo,make up, perfume and notebooks..............."" Great , lets turn the locals into beggars, yes, thats what you are doing, thats what the kids will become. Local schools in Bagan already have trouble getting the kids to school because they are encouraged by their parents to see what "gifts "" they can scrounge from the tourists. Im sure that it made YOU feel good but it really is a stupid thing to do.... I remember the tourists throwing their half eaten hotel packed lunches from the Mandalay boat to the people who were selling handicrafts.. ' Why do they do that,we are not beggars and we are not hungry" the women selling her fine blankets said to me...

OK so we took the soaps etc that we got at the hotels and gave them to the kids who sold us stuff, you're saying thats bad? So nobody should give to charity either then because its effectively the same thing? I despise begging, and will never give anything to a beggar, but to those who are making an effort to make an honest living why not give them a pen or a bar of soap to encourage them to continue that way of life? As for the pens and notebooks, we had our guide take us to his old school and gave them to the principal (and we gave a few pens to people who asked us for them, such as the women who make the lacquerware who use them for engraving). In my opinion it was the very least we could do to help out some very needy people. You sound like the stupid one to me niJERK if you are prepared to visit an impoverished country and not do what little you can to improve the lives of those you come into contact with (provided of course they are not beggars).

" I despise begging and will never give anything to a beggar " Strangely enough, beggars are often ( not always) the people who need help the most.... ' The Burmese often give to needy beggars not to sellers of trinkets, they just pay the price, as I do , although I probably pay over the top...." Why not give them a pen or a bar of soap to encourage them to continue that way of life... " The mind boggles.....I dont delude myself by thinking that handing out goodies is somehow going to improve these peoples lives , the naievity is quite breathtaking , imo of course..... Oh ,btw that niJERK bit was really clever.....

your i.d. name should be i am a jerk not nijkere...who are u to set the standards of gift giving.allow sk78 to travel the way she wants and choose who she does and not give to.

Just wondering what kind of person would write that they "hate beggars"... ?
What kind of idiot would publicly express dislike or even hate for the most disadvantaged people on this earth, who need other peoples help and sympathy the most?.. Going around playing Gods.. with cheap trinkets that cost you (almost) nothing.... sigh...
When I read this kind of B.S. I really question why I waste my time trying to help stupid people having a better trip and or saving you a few svenska krona, so that you may go home and tell your friends what great charity/person/Gods you are...
How we conduct ourselves in other cultures is an individual thing.. who am I to judge you?... But the overbearing behaviours of some of you, just make me want to puke... Granted, some beggars make a carrier out of it.. What’s wrong with that? give or don’t give.. make a choice and stop preaching!.. Bet you got yourself on some sweet “gravy train” through a bit of clever begging.. guess you call it “networking”?.. So that’s ok.. I suppose?

On ya, joe5710, seems fairly plain and simple to me, your comments about nijkerk are right on the button, for me, I will be in Myanmar 18 Oct for a couple of weeks , trying to do my own thing, and I certainly appreciate your contributions SK78.

Again thanks to all those people who have made positive contributions and a pox on those whingers who believe its their god given right to slam others of different thinking.

Nijerk

I also always grabbed the extra soap, shampoo and pens when I had the chance. When I made friends in various places, and was invited for tea, I always offered some of the loot I had collected.

One time in Bagan, 3 brothers and the little sister, were all riding home from school, and said hello to me on my bike, and we started to talk. They said they were good at english and wanted to practice with me. For about 45 minutes we sat roadside under a shade tree, and I tried my best to help the eager children, who were very brights and very sweet. They asked afterwords if i had a pen or pencil, which I did, then the cute little girl looked at me with her big brown eyes, and said, Mister Tim, you have any soap for mama?

Luckily, of course I did, and gladly handed them over to a grateful and gracious child.

You have a problem with that...too bad, I dont...

Far out. What an amazing thread. Yeah. Life is so simple.

Here is something - a true story told by Chanthy - that I wrote for a hospital in Phnom Penh where I was working this summer.

“As you know, I did not think I would be alive. I was so sick”
(Chanthy’s story)

In her 40 years of life Chanthy has been in a forced labor camp, worked as a farmer, been a wife and mother, been a beggar, and now supports herself with a small business. She also has HIV infection and has survived multidrug-resistant tuberculosis (MDR-TB).

Chanthy was 8 years old and living in Svay Reang Province when the Khmer Rouge came to power in 1975. She endured forced labor, starvation, and the murder of her parents before the Khmer Rouge regime was overthrown. She married young and had three children before she and her husband, a farmer, separated. By age 19, she was in Phnom Penh with three children, looking for work in construction. She and her children lived outside a temple wall, with other homeless people. There was little work for women and she ended up as a beggar, making 5,000 riel on a good day and 2,000 riel on a bad day (4,000 riel = $1 US). She met a man, also a beggar, and they set up a household against the temple wall. This man she calls her second husband beat her regularly and gambled away what little money they made, but also gave her a sort of stability – and he gave her the virus. “I learned I am infected since 1998 when my husband became sick.”

Her husband died in 2000. She took care of him as diarrhea and AIDS wasting syndrome took his strength and then his life. It was at this time that the HOPE home-based care team became involved with Chanthy. “I felt sad when he died because I didn’t see his face anymore ... I told his family he was dead, but nobody came to join with the funeral.”

After her husband died, Chanthy continued begging, and she began gambling. But something was different. The HOPE home-based team was involved and they encouraged her to enlist in their program for widows and children. Working in a partnership with the Friends Program, they supported her, counseled her, and found a place for her to live in a slum. The counseling led her eventually to the idea of purchasing a scale (for $8) and she went from place to place weighing people for a small fee. On a good day she made 10,000 riel and on a bad day, 5,000 riel. Her situation was also improved because she was able to follow strict program guidelines, including no drinking and no gambling. Unfortunately, her HIV and tuberculosis were not well-controlled and she had difficulty working – “I was sick and coughing too much.”

Counseling and treatment continued, and as her condition improved, she saw greater possibilities for herself. In 2004 she asked for and received assistance in buying a foot-powered sewing machine. With the sewing machine she was able to make bags for Friends to sell in their shop. She has been sewing for three years now and every month she is able to put some money in the bank. Chanthy has gone from begging to the bank.

Chanthy is far from wealthy or even comfortable. But her two daughters are in school – well past the age when she left school – and her son is employed. The HIV and tuberculosis are controlled and she feels good almost everyday. She ticked off what she has today: a place to live, money in the bank, a job, and clothes. “I have more power than before ... thank you so much.”
--------------------

I mean, it is kind of flackish (it's for a newsletter), if you know what I mean, but it is the Truth

Phnom Penh slums

CK

So I post what I thought may be a few helpful pieces of information, get my head bitten off, and wonder why I bothered in the first place.

PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS OF WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS NOT, GET OVER IT! If CK worked in a hospital in Pnom Pehn he/she's obviously a better human being than the rest of us, despite the possibility that by doing so he/she may have contributed to the problem because so long as foreigners come local governments have less motivation to train and employ their own people to do the work and become self-sufficient - I volunteered in Africa for a short time before I started seeing the detrimental effect it was having. Whatever your opinion is, I and I'm sure others have a different one (and I'm not saying yours is wrong, just that it is different from mine), and we don't rub it in your face unless you act first to do the same to us - grow up and remove your blinkers.

For anyone who doesn't carry around an enormous chip on their shoulder I hope you found my post useful, and to the rest of you take your angry judgemental thoughts and sob-stories and post them somewhere else.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>take your angry judgemental thoughts and sob-stories and post them somewhere else. <hr></blockquote>
Hmmmm well, how about:
"First you take the plank out of your own eye so you can see clearly to remove the speck of sawdust from your brother's eye!"
Memorable quotes for Godspell: A Musical Based on the Gospel According to St Matthew

#10 "who are you to set the standards for gift giving allow sk78 to travel blah, blah,........."" Well I dont see how I can prevent anyone doing what they want or can set any standards !! Youve missed the point completely, this , in case you havent noticed, is a forum and I am stating my point of view which Im free to do. My point of view differs from yours and sk78s, deal with it, and keep the insults to yourself. Ive just returned from India where in some places you will be followed constantly by kids asking for pens, shampoo, sweet, toothpaste or whatever itt hasnt really started in Burma yet give it time.....

#13 A perfect example of giving to make yourself feel good, imo, of course...

I didn’t really say anything about myself other than I worked in a hospital, did I. I also didn’t attack you nor did I say anything negative about you or anyone else on this thread. All I did was paste in someone’s brief life history in the hope that some of the complexities or humanness of life might emerge.

If you don’t want to give to beggars that’s your choice. If beggars are despicable to you, well, okay. If you think it’s a good thing to give cheap or pilfered gifts, fine, no problem for me. If you think your actions or no actions help “local governments have” (more) “motivation to train and employ their own people to do the work and become self-sufficient” well, then, I’m speechless.

Surely you can read back through your posts and see who is the person with “angry judgemental thoughts.”

BUT, if I decide to take a guided tour of Burma, maybe I’ll check back in on this thread for some pointers.

Asia 2005, 2006, 2007

Budget travel basics for Southeast Asia gets you started: expenses, transportation, lodging, eating, safety and scams, countries sections, etc.

CK

mr jerk..if u cant handle beggars then just stay home.

Oh, hey, I clicked my own travelogue link (Asia 2005, 2006, 2007) to read (again) about Burma and look at photos. Here is something from the bus ride Rangoon to Bago (for SK, they always put little stools or something in the aisles of the buses so they can squeeze more people in):

I fall into conversation with the woman sitting on the little blue stool next to me. She tells me she is retired, a physician. She and her husband (also a doctor) have a small practice in a village near Bago. I ask her what is the biggest problem they see and she says, "Poverty." Diagnoses-wise, they see the basic primary care things, except more parasites. I ask her how people pay for the care and she smiles softly, "They cannot pay very much." I say, "So you are choosing to do this." And she looks at me directly and says, "Yes."

Another "sob-story" - posted "somewhere else" and here, too.

CK

#2 Quite amazing really, but you seem to have missed the point , again,.... Where in my post do I mention that I cant handle beggars? Hey, I give beggars ,who have no option but to beg , money or food, I worked in Hyderabad some years back taking food and clothing to the worst cases(leprosy, disfigurement, elephantisis, madness etc) We however didnt take shampoo , soap and pens to well fed kids.... , I dont like to trade insults but in your case Mr Joe, Ill make an exception "WHAT A JERK"......

ps It should be #20 ,of course

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<hr>we entered Myanmar using the Visa-on-Arrival<hr></blockquote>
Just like to set the record straight here.. Myanmar Immigration do not offer Visa-on-Arrival.. It is however possible, through a travel agent, at a fee, to pre-arrange visa.. Just don't think its a case of getting a visa on arrival.. In fact, unless you have visum in your passport.. or a letter of confirmation stating that you have pre-arranged visum.. your airline will not allow you to check in on your Myanmar bound flight.

Quote:
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Just like to set the record straight here.. Myanmar Immigration do not offer Visa-on-Arrival.. It is however possible, through a travel agent, at a fee, to pre-arrange visa.. Just don't think its a case of getting a visa on arrival.. In fact, unless you have visum in your passport.. or a letter of confirmation stating that you have pre-arranged visum.. your airline will not allow you to check in on your Myanmar bound flight.
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Thanks for setting the record straight.
Do you have a source for your information? First hand experience?

I've gotten the visa on arrival before, have the rules changed again?

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>First hand experience?<hr></blockquote>
As a matte of fact.. yes, I do!
<blockquote>Quote
<hr>I've gotten the visa on arrival before<hr></blockquote>
on-arrival visa, granted immediately prior to entering the country, such as at an airport or border control post. This is distinct from not requiring a visa at all, as the visitor must still obtain the visa before they can even try to pass through immigration. The on-arrival visa usually is nothing more than an arrival tax, though the visitors can still be denied entry even with a visa.

You got something like that on entry to Myanmar... really.. when?

More likely what you got was pre-arranged visum.. arranged through a travel bureau.... as opposed to applying yourself through an Embassy... right?

This may be semantics to you... however to me, visa on arrival implies.. being able to arrive at the immigration counter and pay for your visum without making prior arrangements or paying a middleman to do it for you.

To SK78 - Thanks, I've been in 2 minds about whether to travel to Myanmar for our next trip and your post has allayed some of my concerns.

To Nijkerk - <blockquote>Quote
<hr>in case you havent noticed, is a forum and I am stating my point of view which Im free to do<hr></blockquote>
Do you always state your point of view by attacking people? You must be a joy to live (and travel) with.

Lizbee279, no matter your opinion of nijkerk or the way he expresses his views, I do hope you understood his point about not handing out little gifts to children. It encourages them to leave school and take up selling useless things to tourists as a profession, or begging for soap and pens.

Travel Responsibly

lizebee279 ... perhaps registering a new handle just to come out of left field will give you a good night sleep.. but no credibility whatsoever.

Somsai - you're right but sometimes its hard to resist the temptation.....on our last trip my husband bought a little girl some food becasue she was asleep in the street at night.....rather than eat the food she turned up later in the night with it in her basket of wares. I'm not sure about Myanmar but our experience of other places is its often the parents pushing the kids to both beg and sell.

mose......paranoid much??? If you click on my name you'll find I've been a member for some time. I was also female last time I checked. But you'll be relieved to know I'll no longer be visiting this forum. I expected people here to be a little more open minded and non-judgmental.

Let's see-- bought a Myanmar Tourex package tour, paid extra for an visa on arrival (and received "special" tratment from the gov't officials at immigration), and stayed at 4 star hotels pre-arranged by Myanmar Tourex. Good thing none of the $$$ spent in this trip ended up in Gov't pockets.