Burma's Suu Kyi 'to be charged'

Actually, signing a petition, and or getting 1000 foreigners to head to Burma and protest, both would require putting your name and city ona list of some sort that you support and will participate in a action against the Junta, and since the internet is open to all, Myanmar would just deny all people on any list, a Visa to enter!

Think about it, even the Facebook page for Burma, if you are a friend of the Burma Democracy campaign, you are also a marked man (person) in the Junta eyes, and they can easily make a list of every person on the Facebook Burma page, therefor, denying entry to Myanmar.

So, getting 1000 people together to head to Burma for protest, while a great idea, would need to be done in secret, not to mention the huge influx of people asking for Visa's in a 30 day period, may set off alarms in halls of the Burmese intelligence. After all, how many non Asean Visa's are issued in a given month? 200?

Sure there's something we in the west can do, two things in fact: 1) start convincing China to stop shielding them, and convince all their neighbors to stop buying from them and thus propping up their shell economy. Good luck with all that -- "Don't meddle in internal affairs" is a favorite motto of China as well --hello, Tibet? 2) encourage people to visit the country, period (read: engagement): that's we we all be doing here, if you haven't noticed.

Get over the western hubris that "increased pressure from us" can control the affairs of others--in this case, time has shown otherwise.

Really, buncha, you're spending way more words here repeating "What else do you suggest then?", than there's been the few words spoken criticizing the futility of protests and petitions. Effective alternatives have been suggested; re-read them.

OK, so Helen will do petitions, Hanuman will participate in various work, I'll keep on with Karen people and others will encourage people to visit the country. OK, I guess I must have missed the previous posts discussing this "effective alternative" of encouraging people to visit.

Not the previous posts on this thread... on this forum. The forest, the trees, you know...

~~~OK, so Helen will do petitions, Hanuman will participate in various work, I'll keep on with Karen people and others will encourage people to visit the country. OK, I guess I must have missed the previous posts discussing this "effective alternative" of encouraging people to visit. ~~~

Reply #33

Well ALRIGHT, great plan - glad you guys have it figured out! Other people's efforts to inform and pressure the govt are armchair activism, punting (whatever that means - I'm sure it's complementary), self-serving, & so on, while this plan (traveling in Burma) is none of those things - Lord, Lord, it's an "effective alternative" - how about some detail on that one.

Or maybe you could just say this is what you think, rather than saying unequivocally it's effective and unequivocally that other efforts are ineffective. Come on. Surely we all want the same thing for Burma and surely we're all saddened by this latest development.

I'm not saying that traveling in Burma and informing others is a bad thing; but I'm not convinced it's very effective and I certainly don't think it's the answer. And so far, it's the only alternative that I recall being given in this thread. Maybe you'd share some more direction or ideas.

While the likes of China, Russia and Singapore provide varying degrees of financial support to Myanmar all the petitions in the world and UN huffing and puffing are going to do absolutely nothing.

Do you think using your time and energy on an issue you can't improve is better than using it on something you can improve?

"...persuading hundreds of companies to either withdraw from Burma or to adopt policies not to source certain goods from the country" -- BCUK

"I think the sanctions ... have probably helped" -- b_cha

Helped impoverish the citizenry by pulling jobs out of the country? I know you don't like to hear that, but you need to think about it.

Just look how China has changed in the last ten yrs, none of the young people in China will accpet going back to the land and forgoe their designer clothes, for Mao Tse tungs little red book, we visit and they see us and their depravation becomes more acute as they want what we have, why else are there so many economic migrants from Myanmar to Thailand and I'm not talking the Karenn refugees either.
Obviously if the Generals thought they could get away with it ASSK would be dead in a ditch years ago along with those families of protestors still floating down the Irrawaddy months after the protests. their propaganda broadsheets and TV slots showing them opening schools and receiving praise form local dignataries, doesn't wash with anyone, which is why mobile phones are so expensive, unless you live near the Chinese border where everyone has them and uses the Chinese sim cards.
If Tan Schwe were to die tomorrow General Maung A has a far worse reputation for blood curdling despotism.
History is littered with such despotic dictatorships From Hitler to Timur (Tamerlaine) and they all end up dead psalm 146:3
As I have said Those that rule by fear also live in fear, and trust me Tanschwe is paranoid about all those who come in contact with him. Remember Ceaucesceau he ranted right up to his execution what he would do to those who tried him
meanwhile I leave their downfall to a higher authority, despite my pain at the suffering they inflict. Meanwhile enjoy the warmth of its people and visitand see for yourselves.
travel with passion not politics

Amen monty, I was in the middle of composing this when your post came in; it was meant to tag along with my previous post.
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Of course that's not to even begin to source the sole or even principle fault of the people's woeful state on the west's sanctions. But at this point in time, with the sanctions a decade and more old, one has to examine how contributory they've been. Talking about retrospect, not speculation.

It's as simple as 1 + 1 = 2:

1: The west imposes sanctions, terminating all / as much business dealings with the country as possible.

plus

1: The regime, who clearly cares nothing for the welfare of its citizenry, discovers it can get along fine without the west, THANK YOU VERY MUCH -- with China's "lay-off-of-others'-internal-affairs" political support and more importantly the financial support of China, Thailand, and most of their other neighbors by selling off at wholesale prices the country's abundant natural resources to them -- whose economies, by comparison (recession notwithstanding), are going gangbusters, and they're the ones processing those raw materials. The west is rendered eunuchs, and they don't like it. Their "I'm not impotent!" hubris makes them dig in their heels, just like the regime has done. They don't recognize the damage being done.

equals

2: Impoverished citizenry. Abominable state of health care. Abominable state of education. Abominable lack of opportunity. No end in sight. Yet such an astonishingly refreshing attitude is so often found among them.

You think if maybe western companies were still doing business there, just maybe they could be providing some support for health care, for education, for plain employment opportunity? At least for the lucky few who had jobs with them? For Moe and Ko citizen.

You think maybe if the west had more vested interests there, the regime wouldn't have been so paranoid as to block the west's Nargis relief ships that languished futiley offshore? If we had been engaging them before that, and not obstinately butting heads with them?

The regime says "Let them eat frogs." The west says, "We've got our principles (and pride) to uphold."

How much good have sanctions really done? And what of the damage done?