2 Qs: Nam Ou boat and Driving License

It won't be difficult to charter your own boat for the trip as there are plenty of boats for hire, but it will be relatively expensive compared to paying just for a seat on a boat that is going the same way.

Expect to pay about $100 (or more by now, depending on gas prices, which is the main bargaining position of the boat coops) to charter an entire boat to Muang Khua from Nong Khiaw. But gather a few people who want to do it and, by paying a bit more than the single fare price on a full boat, you will have much more room to stretch and move, and you can also direct the boat to stop at villages along the way and whatnot. A quick break at Muang Ngoi to buy some beer and food and a break at Sop Jam on a bend in the river and a Khmu village north of Sop Jam are all nice.

I've hired boats 3 times on the Nam Ou. All out of Nong Khiaw, but for different trips and number of days. The last time I did it was in March just for a few hour trip up to Muang Ngoi, stop for a beer, and back (all we had time for) and it cost us $20.

You can throw money at any problem - the question is does it meet your reasonable needs, and are you carrying enough $$$.

I agree with phakphon - we have hired boats on the Nam Ou and it is always surprisingly pricey, but convenient. Getting a batch of tourists to share of course reduses your cost per person substantially.

You need an international license to legally rent - I'm sure a bit of money can get you around this, but you are opening yourself up to larger problems if there is some sort of a problem. Police will not take kindly to your abrogation of the laws (again, this is something you can throw money at to make go away - I hope you have a stack of Franklins!) If you are not practiced and adept with 3rd world motorcycle travel I would be very wary of exposing yourself to the driving of Laos on Lao roads. Assume you are guilty if there is an accident; assume there is, at best, only crude medical care in the event of an accident. If you travel without evacuation insurance you are more foolish than rich or poor (cost for this is pretty small, and a med-evac can easily run into the 6 figures USD - World Nomads insures up to $500,000 for a few bucks a week - motorcylce endorsement for med-evac is more expensive, of course).

Hozo,

The problem is that there is a good road. Lao people take the bus unless their destination is on the river. If it were me I’d just go down to the landing in Muang Khua at about 8 in the morning and wait to see who else shows up, any one else wanting to go downriver will be doing the same. Unless your spoken Lao is very fluent as is #1 phakpon’s you might think you are renting the whole boat and the driver might think things are the same as they normally are, like they stop for anyone that flags them down. I know people pay a lot for boats, I don’t, you don’t have to either. I don’t negotiate I just take it easy and let the boat guys think of something.

I’ve rented motorcycles in Laos for years, all you need is your passport. I bring my American license for traffic stops. Yes it’s probably dangerous, so is life, fatal to be exact, life that is. All in all I’d say Laos is one of the easiest countries in SEA to drive in. Watch out for drunks after 3pm. Driving insurance is cheaper than all get out in Laos, if you are worried make sure your motorcycle is covered for collision. Repairs are paid out of pocket, it’s only if you run into another biker you are looking at real money. Watch the way the Lao people drive and try to do the same, forget the rules of the road you used to know.

I too am from the US. It’s the very last place I’d ever want to be medevaced to, I wish they had reverse medivac insurance, I’d go to Aek Udon or better yet Bumrungrad were phakpon's wife had her baby, (1 yr old pretty soon?) my regular health insurance covers foreign hospitals.

Samitivej Sukhumvit, Somsai. Much better than Bumrungrad (according to my wife) but same idea. She had a much better birth experience than most of her friends have had in the US. The little dude is 10 months old, will turn 1 in Kyiv, Ukraine. We depart on Tuesday. I guess I'll meander over to the Eastern Europe thread, although the activity for Ukraine on the TT is pretty slow.

And yes, my Lao was good enough to negotiate (in good faith, and it was about 30 minutes of friendly chatting) with the coop guy and boat drivers to make sure I got a good price, BUT the $100+ I mentioned is what would probably be quoted for the trip for any random tourist who shows up. It was the starting point for my negotiation for a similar trip the first time I showed up at the Nong Khiaw boat landing.

Even though we had hired the entire boat, once we did have a group of 4 hmong brothers tag along on a portion of the trip (Muang Ngoi to Nong Khiaw). The boat owner's wife tried to collect money from them, but I told her that since I had hired the entire boat, I was entitled to the fee (which I subsequently returned to the Hmong brothers).

Somsai, you getting the itch enough to return to Laos this winter?

Yes but I can't just up and leave. I have employees and a wife and kids. Trying to figure out how to sneak off for a month. Craig I think is headed over soon, and you? Finished up those passports I heard. Good job.

Thought your work was somewhat seasonal, thus your multi-month previous visit.

We are weighing future options. If we return to SEA in 2 years (Hanoi, HCMC, Bangkok, Phnom Penh are options) we'll wait, If elsewhere (Southern Africa, perhaps) we'll probably visit next winter (2008/09).

Sorry for the hijiacked thread Hozo.

lol no worries phakphon. i am, however, left with more problems than answers i think. i'm traveling alone and certainly don't have $100 for a boat trip, so is it worth it to get up to muang khua? as in, does anyone think i'll have luck finding a group to go with?

of course nobody has the answer for certain. but, somsai, have you shown up and had luck finding other travelers?

I've never been south of Muang Khua, looks like Lao Miao did the go around headed south as prospects didn't look good. Scroll back a couple of entries. I want to go on the part of the river you are talking about because Hanouman is always going on about how nice it is, and I believe him. On the map there are big hills with a lot of elevation on both sides, more so than upriver. Haven't seen any photos that I think really do it justice yet.

Some people I went for a walk with had gone upriver on the boat, (all the way) shared cost, not bad, they were on a very tight budget. If you head down to the water and don't get any good offers by 7:45 you could always walk up and catch the bus, or hang around until you do catch a boat. Many call Muang Khua a bore, I consider boring a recomendation. If anyone needs to go downriver for any reason they will take you for the cost of gas if nothing else. Better than going empty, and they will be cruising for passengers on the way down. Those tiny engines running low rpms don't suck up that much per day, ten gallons tops.

I think people seldom pass through Muang Khua if their only destination is Nong kiaw, most come in for the short ride from the south. Muang Khua is more a town if your destination is Phongsali, or now Dien Bien phu. Above there both on my trip and on the one Lao Miao describes there were only Lao nationals going. As this route becomes a path to Vietnam I'd expect more traffic, especially by boat out of Nong Kiaw

sounds good somsai. i too was interested in muang khua when a partier told me it was boring! think i'll go up there and see what i can find. if i get any good pics i'll make sure to put some links up.