ATM withdrawal fees in Indonesia

Hello,

Does anyone know if Indonesian banks charge foreign card owners a fee for using their ATMs? If so, are there any banks that do not, so that I can try to plan to stock up when near one.

Thanks

Think it would be more important to find an ATM that gives out large amounts as most don't and associated charges are high.

I have never been charged any fees from a BNI bank ATM. Most of the others don't charge anything as well (in fact I can't think of a time I have ever been charged by any bank's ATM that I have used, and I have used a lot of different ones) but I couldn't tell you with 100% certainty if that's true for ALL of the banks here.
FYI: exchange rates are dependent on your own bank back home, but are often based off of Bank Indonesia's rates: http://www.bi.go.id/web/en/Moneter/Kurs<i>Bank+Indonesia/Kurs</i>Transaksi/

My bank doesn't charge anything for foreign transaction fees, so the amount of money I can withdraw from an ATM at once doesn't matter at all.

I don't think the banks charge a fee (at least, I haven't noticed one), but of course, your home bank probably will charge a fee.

Don't know if you're Australian, but I just got a 28 degrees credit card, which doesn't charge a fee for overseas withdrawal, and am keen to try it out on my next trip to Indo. Might be of interested to you if you're OZ.

I'm not aware of any Indonesian banks charging fees for foreign card holders using their ATMs. BCA don't and if anyone does the fee would be peanuts. As emma33 said, you should be more worried about, and find out, what your home bank charges for offshore withdrawals.

For example if you have a Commonwealth Bank of Australia ATM card and make withdrawals at a non-CBA ATM in Indonesia you will be charged a flat $A5 plus 3% of the value of the withdrawal. A withdrawal of $A200 at a non-CBA ATM in Indonesia is therefore going to cost you $A11 ($A5 plus $A200x3%).

Like above...don't worry about the bank in Indonesia charging you.

You need to consider what your home bank charges.......how much the ATM will give you (answer-can be a very low maximum).....and how often the card won't work at all (also often in outlying parts of Indonesia-make sure you have at least 2 cards if not more).

In the U.S., Capital One and Charles Schwab both have no fees on using ATMs abroad. There may be other banks, but those are the two I know of.

Poster #5 is spot on. Even if you have an account with an Indonesian bank they will not charge for the use of foreign bank cards in their ATM machines.

If you are fortunate to have a foreign (which is non Indonesian from where I sit) bank account which does not charge you for use of your bank card abroad, consider yourself very lucky.

US banks charge a fortune (upwards of $20.00 per ATM transaction abroad) and transaction can even include a simple balance check! Add to that a withdrawal limit of $250.00 per transaction and a per day limit of $500.00 and those fees can add up really quickly.

It never ceases to amaze me that with their very low crediting interest rates and up in the sky bank charges (US banks often charge $50.00 for an international bank wire) that banks in the US got to the verge of utter bankruptcy.

No, that's not true. Their exchange rates are based off of the Bank Indonesia rates listed above. A friend and I have these accounts, and we've tested it. We get the exact amount BI lists.

Trust me, those US banks that seem to be a bargain because they don't charge a fee for ATM withdrawals abroad are making up the short fall with ridiculous exchange rates.

Banks in the US ALWAYS get "their pound of flesh." It's in their nature..."greed is good." ;<)

Sorry to disagree. US banks have every right to use foreign exchange rates as they see fit (but within some parameters of “acceptable greed” I hope).

Sure, while you enter in IDR the amount of ATM transactions here, the amount of the withdrawal expressed by US dollars on your account in the US is solely at the discretion of the bank. BI has nothing to do with that aside from the bank to bank rate (which will not necessarily be the rate reflected in your account). While the bank here in Indonesia will get its money from the US bank based on the day’s BI rate, that is not necessarily what is likely to show up in your account…viz, the US bank gets more dollars for the IDR from YOU!

In other words, the US bank is “selling” you IDR.

Try ordering up some IDR from a US bank prior to a journey from the US to Indonesia. You won’t even get close to the BI rate in effect at that time.

On two occasions involving bank wires from the US to Indonesia that we experienced, and to be sent to our US dollar account here in Indonesia, the bank in the US converted the US funds to IDR at ridiculous rates and then sent the US funds based on THEIR selling rate! Once challenged, they “fixed their error”…ma’af, ma’af flowing like the Ayung, but their game was clear.

Sorry if my attitude is that most all US banks are criminal in their business ethics, but with over 14 years of dealing with the likes of Wells Fargo, aka Jessie James, etc. etc., I have very good reasons to have that opinion.

If your bank in the US is not charging you a transaction fee for out of country ATM withdrawals, then they are making up that loss of revenue some other way…and the most common way to do that is by currency games.

I don't really follow what you're saying. The other day, I withdrew 2 juta from BNI with my Capital One card. When I checked my account online, $217.90 had been deducted. So, as always, my rate was exactly the amount listed on Bank Indonesia's website, which my bank uses as their benchmark. I'm not sure how it would be possible to get a better rate than that.
Of course, I'm not arguing that banks aren't greedy. I'm just saying, I don't incur any extra fees or penalties in the exchange rate when I withdraw from an ATM with my Capital One account. Or at least, this is the cheapest of all ways to get money from my US Bank account, that I know of. If you know of a better way, please share!
Maybe I'm not understanding what it is you're saying.

I think I said it but it is gone. You will find that withdrawing bigger amounts saves money in general.

Luke, maybe Capital One is the singular “non greed based” bank in the US…I don’t know, as I don’t bank with them.

When do they account for bank fees…at the end of your monthly statement cycle, by day, or what?

Sorry Luke, but there is no way I can believe that Capital One is not receiving its “pound of flesh” from you for your ATM use of your US bank card abroad in one way or another unless perhaps you are in some sort of ultra rich client category…personal banker sort of status, in which case they are making enough money out of your deposits with them which is the “vig” between interest they credit your balance with them, and what they loan your funds out at.

Personally I’m happier knowing what my charges as a bank fee, even when I know it’s highway robbery. The known enemy is always preferable to the unknown enemy, especially when the war is over money.

"You will find that withdrawing bigger amounts saves money in general."

For certain...but the daily withdrawal limit is set by YOUR bank, not the bank in Indonesia who owns the ATM.

That amount can be very little per day...thus adding up those per transaction fees...or a lot because you own a piece of the bank.

"Prior posters here on TTT have stated that Capital One Bank does not charge fees for withdrawals of foreign currency abroad."

Does that also mean, (in your view), that Capital One Bank doesn’t profit in some way from such transactions?

In other words, is Capital One Bank in the US, and apparently also CS, one of, or the only "good guy" (fair) banking institutions left in the US?

A 3% ATM transaction fee is something I am not aware of by US banks. My own personal (and daily experience) is that the transaction fee is based on a per transaction basis, having nothing to do with the amount of funds involved.

Prior posters here on TTT have stated that Capital One Bank does not charge fees for withdrawals of foreign currency abroad. I did not know that Charles Schwab Bank doesn't charge either. All other U.S.-based banks appear to charge, most typically with a 3 percent foreign transaction fee and, depending on the bank, some charge additional fees on top of that.
Of course you can bring a lot of cash with you, and some travelers checks, and 2 bank cards, all of which can be used as necessary or as desired.

Their business philosophy is probably that they will make their profits from the customer in other ways on other banking services, but not so much from fees for foreign exchange transactions like most banks do.
There is no rule in business that a profit has to be made on all services provided by a company. In fact, many companies provide certain services where they make little or no money, or even lose money.
Capital One may feel that they value highly the customer who travels abroad -- who, on average, is probably far wealthier than those customers who don't go overseas and spend a lot of money, and Capital One is willing to forego the big profit margins on the foreign transaction fees to keep the valued customers to sell them mortgages, a home equity loan, a car loan, a business loan, and other profit-making services. You don't have to go to Harvard Business School to figure that out.
Get the Picture, MisterInsuranceMan?

“Their business philosophy is probably that they will make their profits from the customer in other ways on other banking services, but not so much from fees for foreign exchange transactions like most banks do. There is no rule in business that a profit has to be made on all services provided by a company. In fact, many companies provide certain services where they make little or no money, or even lose money.”

And that makes sense…except for the last part which reads, “many companies provide certain services where they…even lose money.” For certain they (the bank) is making money…copious amounts of money from all their clients, one way or another but I do agree that most banks with personal banking services are smart enough to not nit pick their prime customers to death…or worse yet, get them angry. Prioritizing clientele importance by a myriad of factors is part and parcel of any business, even here on Bali!

“Capital One may feel that they value highly the customer who travels abroad -- who, on average, is probably far wealthier than those customers who don't go overseas and spend a lot of money…”

Ah, you mean like the budget or backpacker tourist from Los Angeles? With less than 8% of Americans even holding a passport, I highly doubt that foreign travel EVER factors into any profit models used by ANY US bank. A bank in Asia, or the EU…a whole different matter.

Actually Steve, I went to “B” school, and while I never earned my MBA I am still an Associate of the Society of Actuaries, so yes, you can count on me “getting the picture” quite nicely.

@ #19:

"US I guess must be really broke."

Is that new news for you? The US is bankrupt now, and the only thing holding back total acknowledgement of that is other world economies that still have some reliance on the US.

"But would anyone have a limit of less than 500$s? Which would mean some 9 withdrawls at lesser ATMs in Indo."

Nine withdrawals to get to $500 US? What ATMS are you using where the withdrawal limit (unless the ATM is near or out of cash) is only 500,000 IDR?

That amount can be very little per day...thus adding up those per transaction fees...or a lot because you own a piece of the bank.

US I guess must be really broke.

But would anyone have a limit of less than 500$s? Which would mean some 9 withdrawls at lesser ATMs in Indo. Further presumably the poster is budget concious which means 500$s should last a couple of weeks. No math involved.

Capital One is the only U.S. banking institution I know of that doesn't charge significant fees. I have a friend here in Indonesia who set up a bank account and charge card with them before he left the U.S., and I am so jealous.

My small U.S. credit union charges a $2 fee for each ATM withdrawal, regardless of the amount -- and regardless of the Indonesian ATM (which ATM you use does not matter).

WARNING: I also have a U.S. bank account at Citibank -- but when I used an Indonesian Citibank's ATM, I was charged $5 for my withdrawal!!! Be warned! Your U.S. bank may not be connected to the Indonesian branch.

damp_fleece - So there are two things you need to look for, with the Indonesian ATMs.

First, the denomination. The biggest Indonesian bill is Rp 100,000 -- roughly $11 USD. Yeah, right. So there's a sticker on each ATM that says Rp 100,000 or Rp 50,000. Try to avoid the ones that only give Rp 50,000 bills, or else you need really large pockets.

Second, the withdrawal limit. Most HSBC ATMs have a high limit, like Rp 3 million (that is only $322 USD) -- but many, many other ATMs have a low limit, such as Rp 1 million. You need to use the ATM to find out its limit (unfortunately, that is not on a sticker on the outside of the machine).

Rp 3 million is about one inch thick, not folded.

@ #21

“Rp 3 million is about one inch thick, not folded.”

When I “purchased” my first home here in Bali in 1998, during the financial crisis (IDR 16.8 k to the $ at that time), the largest bill one could hope to find was a 20k note. Settlement was made with three full size suitcases of cash, (mostly 5 and 10 k notes) and it took most of the day to count it all. A lot of the bills where in what I call “kampung cash” condition, which basically means you don’t want to know where that bill had been lately. It was best not to think about that and just keep on counting!

@ #22

You’re talking 10 years ago there Steve! With a bank, that can be a lifetime! Do you honestly think that ANY bank in the US today is doing what it did 10 years ago in 2002? Those banks are all history...eaten up by the big three, or is it the big four these days?

Please don’t call me “mister” anything. Pak is just fine and it can be either Pak Made, or Pak Indra…which is the Balinese way…not the LA way.

Remember too, MisterMade, or is it MisterIndra, that prior to about 2002 none of the banks charged any foreign transaction fees for ATM withdrawals abroad.
So Capital One Bank is doing nothing different now than what all of the banks did in this regard prior to 2002.

What can I say? If one's understanding of the US banking system today is 100% garnished from the experience of being a bank teller since 2002, then I guess I can appreciate your view.

The point is that back then banks had other ways to make money from customers, and that is still the case today, and the banks want the quality (rich) customers-- including those with lots of money who travel overseas, and they expect to profit from these quality customers with a variety of banking services that don't have to include foreign transaction fees. It really is as simple as that.

Yes, I understand, and I’m eternally grateful that I’m not currently immersed in the American banking system aside from what I need in order to complete certain deals, and to continue to receive those monthly social security checks provided by you and millions of other working Americans. Many thanks, and please stay employed!

Life in Paradise is just that much better knowing that those funds hit my US bank account each and every month.

LOL -- It's being a FINANCIER here in Southern California, so I know and understand the financial services industry quite well, unlike you sitting in a Third World Country with your limited knowledge and exposure to American banking -- you haven't even been to the USA in 14 years so you aren't in a position to even discuss American business or banking. LOL

Capital One is a basic, free checking account. There are no monthly fees. And I don't have to keep a minimum in the account. Usually, I don't have anything in the account actually. When I want money, I transfer it into Capital One from my account at another banking institution, and then withdraw all of it. That way, if my Capital One card gets skimmed, I don't lost anything. I don't know how their business plan works, I just know that I'm not charged any fees, and I get the best exchange rate possible. Charles Schwab is the same (my brother as well as a close friend have accounts with Charles Schwab). Maybe because they're internet based, they have an easier time doing this? However they do it, I certainly benefit from it!
As an aside, Capital One's credit cards also don't charge foreign transaction fees.

Hi all - just have to chime in. We are Americans, FYI, since that matters for bank rules, etc.

For daily withdrawal limits, simply ask your bank to up it. We did that with BofA in 2007-08 for our 14-month RTW trip. My husband and I each had a $1,000 limit PER DAY on our BofA ATMs, so we could take out $2,000/day max. The bigger issue we found is that many banks in SE Asia and elsewhere limit you per transaction (so in Indonesia we could only get $100 out per time an ATM, for example, so if we needed $400, we'd have to do 4 transactions).

At the time we had a sweet deal (long story) where BofA agreed to reverse all foreign ATM charges (at $5/pop) PLUS the 1% foreign currency commission fee they were charging. That is no longer the deal, and we are thus considering moving our money to Schwab Bank.

However, I am running into some snags with Schwab, as 3 different people have raised a red flag there that technically we can't have an account with them and be gone more than 12 months. Since we are leaving this June for an estimate 18-month RTW trip, they are telling us our account might get flagged and we might have our accounts "frozen," in which case we'd have to call them to settle the problem. This concerns as, as we don't travel with cell phones (we can Skype them on our laptop, tho) and phone calls to the U.S. are a pain in the arse.

Schwab did confirm there are NO foreign ATM fees and no commissions - however, instead of waiving them, note they WILL appear on your statement, but Schwab goes in each month and credits those monies back to you.

I've scanned these posts with curiosity and am not sure who's got the right story about commissions and how U.S. banks are going to make money off of you. I asked Schwab point-blank how they can afford to do this, and the answer I got was pretty much it's not a big deal and not that much of their business vs. other things they deal with, so I'd have to hope I'm not getting gouged with some bogus conversion rate as a result.

Lukemackin, can you please enlighten me about your Capital One BANK account and how you have an ATM with it? We are applying for the Capital One Cash Rewards credit card, which has no foreign currency fees, but I wasn't aware there was a bank I could deal that has 0 ATM fees. Please share - I'm at my wits' end between Schwab and BofA mixed messages.

Also, if someone else knows something different about Schwab, please share. At this point we are very concerned about setting up this Schwab Bank account and going through the hassle of all the paperwork when they're telling us technically we can't be gone for more than a year and use this account. We aren't going to let a bank dictate our travels; that said, we need to be smart about it and not wind up frozen out of our ATMs in some random place.

Thanks!

This is the account I have with Capital One:
http://www.capitalone.com/directbanking/online-checking-accounts/interest-online-checking-account/

I've been overseas for more than 18 months straight now, and haven't run into any problems with it. However, I had the account for maybe 6 months before I came over here. My friend was attempting to do the same thing, but he was setting up the account right before he moved over here, and they ended up refusing to let him open an account with them. So, I'm not sure if it was the individual they were working with, or if he should have started the process much earlier, but he was denied. So, he went with Charles Schwab instead and hasn't had any problems. However, he hasn't been here a year yet. When you say that you can't have an account with them and be gone for more than 12 months, do you mean that that's the limit on their travel notification, and you'll just have to call them back every 12 months and let them know that you're still overseas? That's how it seems to work with Capital One, and I'm under the impression from my friend that Schwab is the same. You just have to call them and extend the notification before it expires. I think that's pretty normal for using ATM cards overseas. You should of course always have a back-up ATM card to use from another bank, in case your primary card gets stolen, skimmed, or eaten by a machine (or if you get locked out and it takes a while to gain access again).
FYI, you talk about Schwab crediting your account for ATM fees (as does Capital One), but since Indonesian ATMs don't charge any fees, you don't have to worry about that. And Schwab uses the same exchange rate from Bank Indonesia that I mentioned earlier, so they're not ripping you off on the conversion.

I didn't find anything on that Capital One website link which says that they don't charge "foreign transaction fees". It only says that they don't charge ATM fees.
ATM fees are not the same as "foreign transaction fees" which are assessed when a tourist withdraws money in foreign currency overseas.

Yes, I know what they are. I live overseas and withdraw by ATM all the time. I'm not making up that they don't charge anything.

Anyway, it's there on the website. Click the debit card tab.
"$0 foreign currency exchange fees by Capital One Bank for purchases and withdrawals made overseas."

Thank you, Luke.

Hi Luke,
Thanks for the great insights. I really appreciate it!

Regarding your question: When you say that you can't have an account with them and be gone for more than 12 months, do you mean that that's the limit on their travel notification, and you'll just have to call them back every 12 months and let them know that you're still overseas?

Schwab told me there are international banking rules that technically don't allow someone to have a U.S. account and live overseas for more than a year; you would then need to open an international bank account, which I've heard is a pain. However, as I keep reiterating to them, we are not living/moving overseas; rather, we are traveling for 18 months around Asia and the Middle East, so...not sure how they will handle it.

Yes, I am definitely going to notify them of our overseas plans (as well as credit card companies, etc.) and will make a note to renew that notice. The fear is that I've gotten so many different answers from Schwab Bank that I don't have much confidence we won't run into problems. And once we've left, I can't really do much other than fall back on my BofA account with that nasty $5/transaction fee + foreign currency exchange.

I does say this on Capital One's banking site in the small print:
† Fees assessed at any ATM within the United States and at some ATMs located outside the United States will be reimbursed within 5 business days, up to $25 per statement period.

That got me thinking that a max of $25 reimbursement per statement (i.e., month) isn't that great - that means I can only make 5 free withdrawals a month. Am I missing something?

Appreciate the heads-up of your buddy being denied, though - I wonder if we'd have the same problem since we'll just be applying for the credit card now and possibly adding the bank about 1 month prior to leaving the country. ???

Why can't you merely give them an address of a relative in the U.S.A. (as your residence and mailing address)?

"I does say this on Capital One's banking site in the small print:
† Fees assessed at any ATM within the United States and at some ATMs located outside the United States will be reimbursed within 5 business days, up to $25 per statement period.

That got me thinking that a max of $25 reimbursement per statement (i.e., month) isn't that great - that means I can only make 5 free withdrawals a month. Am I missing something?"

That's pretty typical of banks that reimburse ATM charges. I don't think you'll find a better deal than that. Remember, the ATM charge is not from your bank, but the other bank whose ATM you are using. It's different from the foreign transaction/exchange fee that is assessed by the debit card issuer. For instance, if you use your Capital One card on a PNC Bank's ATM, PNC charges you a fee for using their ATM, say, $2.50. So, Capital One will reimburse you that amount on your next statement. I think Schwab is the same.

I don't know where else you are travelling, but in Indonesia most, if not all, banks do not charge a fee for using their ATM, so it's not an issue here. So, I can withdraw from a BNI bank ATM a hundred times in a month, and BNI doesn't charge me anything. As a result, there is nothing for Capital One to reimburse me for. And, like I said, unlike with most U.S. banks, Capital One also doesn't charge a fee for foreign transactions. So, I can withdraw as many times a month as I like here, without penalty.

You might want to check out this Wikipedia article to see what ATM fees might look like in other countries (hopefully it's fairly accurate, but I don't know). At a quick glance, it seems like most Asian countries charge under a dollar for their ATM fees, although it seems Thailand charges a full $5. Ouch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees

You can also compare fees for debit and credit cards from different banks here (again, I can't attest to it being 100% accurate, but it should give you an idea). http://www.flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange

I've also never heard that about not being allowed to have a US bank account and being overseas for more than a year. That would complicate the lives of many US citizens overseas if that is true and if it were enforced!

Thanks everyone,
Schwab was pretty adamant that rules are changing recently and they are cracking down on Americans living overseas and keeping U.S. bank accounts. The main issue is, regardless of the address we give (we use my mom's in AZ when traveling), they will be seeing a number of ATM withdrawals from banks across Asia and possibly the Middle East, which sets off their automatic fraud crawlers to alert them and possibly freeze the account (at least, this is the gist of what they told me). If that happens, it will require a phone call to get it unfrozen.

Luke, Schwab has told me they have NO limits on foreign ATM reversals, so every month we should see any/all charges reversed by them.

I'm still puzzled by the fees charged by the foreign banks - from what I can tell, it sounds like it's built in to the withdrawal as their commission, which is understandable - cost of doing business.

In 2007 we got BofA to reverse all $5.00 non-BofA ATM fees plus the 1% transaction fee, and we saved about $600 over the course of our 14-month trip. They won't do that anymore, so we're moving to a bank that will.

MadeIndra, your insights are spot on and I, too, question what Schwab is telling me on not being "allowed" to be gone for more than 12 months, but perhaps the rules here really are changing. It wouldn't surprise me.

We'll be all over SE Asia, Nepal, India, central Asia, China, and possibly Jordan and Turkey. Looking forward to getting out of here, as right now I'm having second thoughts about uprooting my life and leaving. AHHH!

I'll let you know if I find out anything else. Please do the same on your end if you think of anything else. Cheers!

MadeIndra, thank you for enlightening me. Seems these banks aren't on the up and up (not that I suspected they would be). Interesting info you shared - thank you!

Technically we're not living overseas, rather, traveling for 18 months, but since so few people do what we're doing in the U.S., most vendors we talk to don't really know how to accommodate us (or aren't willing to). It creates some interesting scenarios.

Curious to know where you live and if you're American? We might just be following in the expat footsteps one of these days.

Cheers!
DLM

Sent you a PM in reply to your question.

Thanks MadeIndra!

Nice to have connected with you here. I've got your VT site up to peruse further - I'm fascinated by this neat life you've made for yourself over there.

Cheers,
Molly