PERMIT SITUATION UPDATE

"vistet wrote.." to be read : Chinese embassy says today, in the supplied link. As already pointed out you won´t get a breakdown on the different costs from the agency , or interact with the embassy. The agency will use all fees as an opportunity to mark up the price , hardly surprising.

re: being forced to buy ongoing tickets from Lhasa....

davyd wrote: "As for tickets - travel agency which organizes Tibet tours is responsible for departure of tourists from Tibet and may not take you in group and process visa unless you book overpriced train tickets from them (it's written in tour vouchers which are given to tourists)."

Only a few agencies operating discount trips out of Kathmandu seem to do this. Luckily this is not normal practice from most Lhasa based travel agents.....nor is it govt. policy in any way. .

If an agencies insists you must buy outgoing tickets from them you are being ripped off! Find another more reputable agency! You can buy your ongoing tickets from where ever you like. However agencies do have a right to make sure you have an ongoing ticket as you are legally their responsibility while you are in Tibet. Remember....the agencies are the ones that get in trouble if you stay on without permit, break any kind of law etc.

mrcjonesy wrote: You can buy your ongoing tickets from where ever you like

Really? I don;t think it's true.

Ticket from Tibet may be bought only in Lhasa on producing Chinese group visa with all entry stamps on it. Those tourists who booked tours without train tickets and arrived in Tibet I think can book themselves, but usually people use service of hotels or travel agents for small commission.

davyd, you've been wrong before about Tibet!!

The idea behind the TT is for travelers to post facts and experiences - not hearsay and rumour!

davyd - I welcome corrections to the information I post but I need factual information from reliable sources or actual recent experience verified from a number of people. I'm sorry if my information wasn't clear in the above post.

Here is some facts about ongoing travel from Lhasa in relation to visa and permits based on the last 20 or so times I've traveled to Tibet with the most recent trip being December 2010 (entered from Nepal that particular time)

1. There is no law requiring travelers to book ongoing travel by train or flight before being issued a Tibet Travel Permit. (some unscrupulous agencies may tell you this is law to get more business from you. Some Ktm agencies selling discount tours include ongoing travel as part of their package. Be very careful as some agencies are charging ridiculous "service fees" on train tickets.)

2. Anyone can buy a ticket out of Lhasa by flight or train from any legitimate seller. You don't have to use the same agency you booked your tour with. (some ticket sellers will ask to see your permit). You can use online travel retailers for flights if the website allows international credit cards. (some sites don't allow Tibet flights to be booked from overseas)

3. There are no entry stamps on Tibet Travel Permits. (although if you come from Nepal your Chinese Visa (The group visa - which includes your Tibet permit as one document) will be stamped to show entry to China.

4. Some agencies will ask to see proof of ongoing travel from Lhasa as travelers in Tibet are legally the responsibility of the agency during your stay in the T.A.R.

Particularly some budget agencies rely on misinformation and deliberately spread confusing information. Its always a very good idea to check and re-check the "inclusions" and "not included" information when booking trips to Tibet.

westwood wrote: davyd, you've been wrong before about Tibet!!

when?

mrcjonesy wrote: The idea behind the TT is for travelers to post facts and experiences - not hearsay and rumour!

well, I am not spreading rumours but just what I saw in Tibet in December 2010.

1. There is no law requiring travelers to book ongoing travel by train or flight before being issued a Tibet Travel Permit. (some unscrupulous agencies may tell you this is law to get more business from you. Some Ktm agencies selling discount tours include ongoing travel as part of their package. Be very careful as some agencies are charging ridiculous "service fees" on train tickets.)

This is ridiculous. There is no such law for tourists but there is such rule for travel agencies, to make sure that some stupid foreigners did not decide to travel independently. Recently I read about another such case which brought a lot of trouble and enourmous devastating expences for Lhasa travel agent just because foreigners get off the train and travelled to Zhangmu on their own.

2. Anyone can buy a ticket out of Lhasa by flight or train from any legitimate seller. You don't have to use the same agency you booked your tour with. (some ticket sellers will ask to see your permit). You can use online travel retailers for flights if the website allows international credit cards. (some sites don't allow Tibet flights to be booked from overseas)

Again, everything will depend on goodwill of agency which will organizes tours in Tibet. There is no reason why they will serve you.

3. There are no entry stamps on Tibet Travel Permits. (although if you come from Nepal your Chinese Visa (The group visa - which includes your Tibet permit as one document) will be stamped to show entry to China.

I didn't say anything about entry stamps on TTB permits, just Chinese group visa. Check.

4. Some agencies will ask to see proof of ongoing travel from Lhasa as travelers in Tibet are legally the responsibility of the agency during your stay in the T.A.R.

There is no such thing like "Some Agencies will ask". It means you claim that other agencies won't bother about your departure from Tibet, which is not true.

Particularly some budget agencies rely on misinformation and deliberately spread confusing information. Its always a very good idea to check and re-check the "inclusions" and "not included" information when booking trips to Tibet.

Please show links to this misinformation

So far only you, mrcjonecy and westwood were spreading misinformation here.

Edited by: davyd

"There is no such thing like "Some Agencies will ask". It means you claim that other agencies won't bother about your departure from Tibet, which is not true."

See the link in # 722 : jdeckx used same agency as you , and managed to get a tour to Lhasa and buy the train ticket out on his own.

Glad to see I'm in good company!!

vistet wrote: See the link in # 722 : jdeckx used same agency as you , and managed to get a tour to Lhasa and buy the train ticket out on his own.

I also did not pay for train ticket and bought it in Lhasa. But this is depends on nationality I think, on itinerary of tourist and his image. If he/she seems suspicious (capable of straying off the way) even for travel agency they won't serve even tourists from such countries. And also on season - in high season, in summer, it's hardly possible because they can easily find new customers.

Edited by: davyd

So now you're contradicting what you said Train tickets you cannot buy yourself or in advance (because it is issued only with China group visa).
Now its I also did not pay for train ticket and bought it in Lhasa.
Cant have it both ways!!