Lhasa to Nepal, March/April 2011

oops!!! that was meant specifically for invicta27, still haven't grasped this blogging thing!

also, cheers again Davyd for your top tips, will definitely pursue this option. thought i was stricter than that. awesome news.

davyd - when you enter Tibet from Nepal on a group visa, the company that arranges your group visa still must assure that you depart Tibet.

When you enter Tibet from China, the same is true. I seriously doubt that it will be possible simply to join a tour to Nepal. Please read this article about traveling illegally in Tibet. The risks are more for locals than for foreigners.

OP you might want to contact companies in Kathmandu and see if you can arrange to begin your tour with them on the return portion of their travels, but don't expect to get to Lhasa and then arrange to do this.

Ruth

#6.... There is NO unusual risk to foriegners coming to Tibet. Tibet is safer then many other Asian countries. The story that the govt. closes Tibet for foreigner's safety is simply not true! It is also not true that Tibet is ever closed due to a holiday - if Tibet was open during this period you could simple have your agent get your permit processed BEFORE the New Year Holiday!?

corn... #8's info is WAY out of date. before 2008 you used to be able to travel independently after coming in on a group permit. But since 2008 almost no-one is doing this. It is FAR stricter these days and only a few very determinded and savvy independent travelers are getting around Tibet. To legally do what you are suggesting you'd have to plan your trip in advance.

You can change travel agents in Tibet (ie. come in on one permit with one agency - then change to another agency and a new permit) But most travel agents will tell you this is not possible. The paper work is time consuming and agents don't want the hassle.

To do a Lhasa - Ktm overland trip there is no need to change agencies or travel independently ( you can't really anyways!).........just hunt around and find a reliable operator - find a few folks to join you - negotiate the services you want from the agency (you only have to have permit, guide and vehicle - the rest you can negotiate.......then go for it!

Ruth

this of course depend on nationality. All Westerners were not issued Chinese group visa in Kathmandu unless they can present proof of their journey out of Tibet. So they had to book overpriced train tickets (by 100 dollars each). I (an Easterner) was not asked to do this and book my ticket in Lhasa on normal price.

OP seems to be Westerner so he has not much choice. His options include overpriced group tour (according to prices he was quoted) or booking budget tour to Lhasa with return train ticket. Maybe he can manage to get at least partial refund after cancelling it and in Lhasa join returning group from Kathmandu.

I am not a specialist in Tibet travel I just have been there few days ago and it seemed to me possible if I stay and explore Tibet independently. I had a Chinese group visa for 28 days with only my name written (to avoid any trouble at checkpoints). But I noticed that different nationalities were treated differently so probably the legal group tour is the only way.

davyd - your group was scammed! There is no such rule that you have to show outgoing travel from Tibet to get your Chinese visa from the Ktm consulate. All you need is an invitation letter from your agent in Tibet showing your planned itinerary. Your agency does this for you.

Perhaps you'd like to name and shame the agency who is forcing their clients to buy outgoing transport from Lhasa?

OP is asking about a trip from Lhasa to Ktm - so he has many options. If he comes into China from somewhere other than Nepal then he needs to get his Chinese visa before hand and have his permit arranged by the agency arranging his travel. He doesn't have to join a "group tour" he can negotiate with an agency for what ever he likes (but he does have to use the services of an agency and purchase permit, transport and guide at a minimum)

corns86,
I am planning a trip around April to do something similar. Chengdu - Lhasa - Kathmandu. I've been doing a lot of research and Ive found companies that can do a similar trip for little less money and time. There are two people in my party. Message me and we can coordinate if your interested.

to mrcjonecy.

actually all Kathmandu travel agencies are doing that - they say it's necessary to get Chinese visa. Can you provide link to official information regarding this rule or you have access to internal TTB information that onward tickets are not necessary? Many people especially from Western countries would be grateful if they can persuade Nepali travel agencies that bookings are not needed to get Chinese visas.

I know only what Ruth said earlier: when you enter Tibet from Nepal on a group visa, the company that arranges your group visa still must assure that you depart Tibet.

Regarding the permits and train tickets:

As China treats Tibet as part of its territory, it sounds logical that one would need a Chinese visa to enter Tibet (by entering Tibet from Nepal, you are entering China). You need the Tibet permit on top of that.

The train ticket out of Lhasa has nothing to do with the Chinese visa, it has to do with the agency making sure that you will leave Tibet when your Tibet permit runs out. This is their responsibility. Of course you can miss the train but this is not their responsibility anymore, it´s your own.

Train tickets out of Lhasa really seem a bit overpriced when bought from an agent in Kathmandu. Does anyone know a website or another place in Nepal, where these can be arranged in advance? (Although I suspect that the agency´s profit from the train ticket is calculated in the whole margin from selling you a tour permit train ticket, so if you already have the train ticket, they will just hike the price of the tour and end up with the same profit.)

I am planning joining a tour from Kathmandu to Lhasa and then taking the train to Xining some time in the second half of April. I am travelling by myself and companions are welcome:)

Edited by: tishobj

Does anyone know a website or another place in Nepal, where these can be arranged in advance?

I seriously doubt that these tickets are even available in Nepal. Companies in Nepal purchase them through agents in Tibet.

You might try contacting a Tibet based company to obtain the ticket for travel from Lhasa to Xining.

Hopefully you are aware that your Chinese visa will be limited to 15-30 days and cannot be renewed, extended or changed which means that from the day that you enter Tibet, you will have 15-30 days to leave China.

Ruth

to Ruth: is it not 28 days maximum for such kind of visa, not 30?

to tishobj: can you report whether you succeed or not in obtaining train tickets out of Lhasa in advance? It's a matter of great interest for many travellers I am sure.

When I bought train ticket to Xian through hotel in Lhasa, receptionist asked me for original Chinese group visa with my name, saying it's necessary if foreigner wants to buy ticket. In your case you want to arrange it without such visa.