Nature in Korea

BTW - OP...sorry for hijacking your post!!

I'm genuinely interested in resolving this one way or the other now, for my own curiosity

Me too! :-)

First, about those websites you linked in post #6. The first one is a site I could have made myself at home, and I am certainly no website expert. I don't think we can rely too heavily on its content.

After the words "Distribution: East Siberia", the second website goes on to say "On average, the Leopard Cat is as large as a Domestic Cat, but there are considerable regional differences: in Indonesia the average size is 45 cm (18 in), plus a 20 cm (8 in) tail, while it is 60 cm/40 cm (24/16 in) in the southern Amur region". So is it saying that the Amur Leopard Cat occurs as far south as Indonesia? Or is the text suddenly, and for no apparent reason, referring to the Asian Leopard Cat?

The third website shows a distribution map for the Amur Leopard Cat that does not include the Korean peninsula (but comes close). The distribution maps in Birds of Korea by Mark Brazil (the latest field guide to Korean birds) inform me that I shouldn't be seeing White-backed Woodpeckers in my local forest, but I not only see them there but have seen pairs with recently fledged young, indicating local breeding. Pale Thrush, Yellow-throated Bunting and many other species also shouldn't be on breeding territory around here in summer, according to the maps, but they most certainly are.

What I am saying is that Korea is such an under-recorded area for wildlife in general, and distribution maps should accordingly be taken with a large pinch of salt. As a biologist I am sure you are aware that distribution information is regularly inaccurate ... perhaps especially so for generally secretive and shy mammals like wild cats.

It's still not clear to me what you think those animals that I and others are seeing in Korea actually are. All of the pictures of Asian Leopard Cat I have found online show clear leopard spots on the body. The structure of the Asian Leopard Cat is also different, they have a thinner face, longer and more pointed ears, broad stripes on the tail, and from the pictures appear generally smaller and daintier.

I found some more pictures online, this is one of the actual animals I saw at Junam Reservoir earlier this year. The facial markings appear good for Amur Leopard Cat, as does the lack of leopard spots on the body, the size of the ears and the structure of the face.

I am in no way attempting to undermine your credentials, but you seem to be basing your position on an internet distribution map combined with the fact that you personally have never heard of Amur Leopard Cat occurring further south than Manchuria. I am saying that I have had actual field experience, on three or four occasions, of wild cats in Korea that closely resemble Amur Leopard Cats. They are definitely not Asian Leopard Cats, as any comparison of the photos of the Korean animals and Asian Leopard Cats will tell you.

I too have absolutely no desire to get into an argument over this, but I know what I (and others) have seen in Korea and I must stand by what I believe. It would be good to get to the bottom of it. Perhaps it's some kind of hitherto undocumented subspecies of Amur Leopard Cat?

Cheers.

OK, a contact with much more knowledge of Leopard Cat taxonomy than myself has replied to my email:

"Leopard Cat Prionailurus bengalensis is divided into 11 subspecies:
http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1987/

..one of which is Amur leopard cat P.b.euptilurus. Which is the one found in Korea.

See http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/18146/0"

Of particular interest on that site is the following: Although one mainland Asian subspecies is generally recognized, the nominate P. b. bengalensis (Kerr, 1792) (Groves 1997), a number of mainland Asian subspecies have been classically described, including the Amur Leopard Cat P. b. euptilurus of the Korean Peninsula, Russian Far East and northeastern China. It was earlier proposed as a distinct species based on morphological differences from southeast Asian specimens, but Chinese specimens were shown to be similar and this is not recognized (Wozencraft 2005).

From my contact's email again:

"*also here:"P.b.euptilurus - Korea, East Siberia"
http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/bco/lepcat.htm

*Also if you scan down on here:
http://birdsmongolia.blogspot.com/"

I was slightly wrong in that I presumed that Amur Leopard Cat was a separate species from Leopard Cat based on its rather different physical appearance, but it is only a distinctive subspecies. Other than that, it would appear that the cat that I and others have seen in Korea is indeed Amur Leopard Cat.

I hope this has now been resolved to your satisfaction!

Cheers

Edited by: dominic77 to add quotation marks

Yeah ok man...I guess you win! :) I think a lot of confusion lay within the discrepancies of the various sub species and the common names and Latin names. I am happy to be proved wrong by good scientific information. I hope no grudges are held in this regard. I was working on previously held conceptions, and what available evidence I could find. I'm actually really happy that the Amur Leopard cat exists in Korea. It's one more great thing to say about the country I assume we both live in. A good discussion well ended. Nice one dude!!

I was aware that the Amur was a sub species, but wasn't aware that it was on the Korean peninsula.

I'm actually really happy that the Amur Leopard cat exists in Korea

Yeah me too. It says something about their resilience and adaptability, considering the density of the human population in Korea and how systematically the environment is being degraded! :-(

Agreed, it was an interesting discussion ... both sides learned from it I think. Hopefully one or two Amur Leopard Cats will overwinter again at Junam Reservoir and I'll get another opportunity to take a look at these beautiful animals.

Cheers

I wish the discussions on Dave's ESL could be as cordial!

Mostly I am looking for snakes. Have you guys seen any and if so, you can PM if you'd rather, I'd like to know as much locality info as you can remember. I will attempt to refind these locations and search for snakes there.
Thanks!

Only snake I ever saw in Korea was an adder type roadkill in Paju near a rice paddy. It was trying to get from a forested hill to a rice paddy for the frogs.

Just as a precaution... I had read in some old literature about unexploded landmines being in the hills. Does anyone know if this is still an issue?