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<hr>a fact that everyone else seems to agree with<hr></blockquote>Steve, only 4 other people are responding here (above from your post that mentioned this point). One DIDN'T agree with that. And, as for the 3, well, not exactly an astouding set of statistics.
Is it dumb? No, there is a logic to it, and a traditional one at that.
Is it fair, or accommodating, or something else negative? Sure. I agree wholeheartedly, but I have not found any realtor/landlord who doesn't ask for such money, so I abide by the custom and pay. Begrudgingly at time, yes, but I guess you need lessons in being a "palatable tennant [sic]" in order to get your money back.
I see my realistic, practical suggestions and informative links have fallen on deaf ears (and blind eyes). Go ahead and be sarcastic and juvenile with your "ray of sunshine" cracks, but at least I have provided reasonable alternatives. You just whine.
You wanna change the whole renting culture of Japan, eh? Be my guest. I would think there are bigger windmills to tilt at.
Deaf ears AND blind eyes eh? Thats quite a situation I'm in. And a bit of whining is good every once in a while; the other 75% of posters on this thread don't seem to mind.
I'll tilt at any windmill I want too, so there.
Hey hey guys.
The Leo Palace 21 chain of apartments requires neither reikin or shikikin. What they are doing is to observe the frustration that people in Japan, natives and gaijin alike, have expressed over the years and to turn that frustration into their marketing strategy by saying, "We guys are different. We are on your side by not requiring the stupid reikin." Whether or not Leo Palace is really on the renters' side is debatable, but at least they don't pretend to be the lords who generously take care of the subjects and therefore deserve to be thanked with a cash gift.
Although Leo Palace is really a "one-room mansion" type place which I am not all that fond of, if I had to rent a place right now I'd seriously consider them.
steve,
No need to get childish about things. But if that's your way. I still don't see you making any suggestions, realistic or otherwise, to resolve the situation. I, on the other hand, have.
Jacksan,
Yes, LeoPalace21 does that, however, you have to pay for all of your rent up front, plus incur a cleaning service fee. So, in the end, it amounts to paying a whopping whole lot more if you plan to stay for a year, and you certainly have to pay more just to move in.
I never said I did have any suggestions! I merely highlighted the issue at the start of this thread. However it appears impossible to have a reasoned debate in the face of such self-righteousness and pomposity, with your "realistic, practical suggestions and informative links", so I admit I succumbed to the urge to inject some much needed sarcasm into the thread.
It is clear there is a mutual disagreement and I'm sure most people are getting tired of this rather petty spat, so I leave it at that.
I've never rented in Japan, however I have just read the link in post #6, which includes the concise summary:
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<hr>Moving into a new apartment is very expensive in Japan. You will typically need to pay the equivalent of five or six months' rent up front<hr></blockquote>
and
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<hr>reikin will amount to the equivalent of 2 months' rent, but occasionally you can find an apartment requiring only 1 month or so. Reikin is a mandatory non-refundable gift to the owner. <hr></blockquote>
I'm with stevesayskanpai, this system is stupid in absolute terms and there is nothing wrong with someone just coming out and saying it's stupid. It may be the way things are, but it's still stupid. It adds signifcantly to the cost of doing business for companies who bring in overseas employees, it is bad for Japanese as if they change jobs they may find they have an additional cost when changing apartment to live closer to their work.
It is also completely at odds with the renting system anywhere else in the world AFAIK, where equivalent demands would either be illegal or be met with a two word reply initialed by 'F' and 'Y'
Grouchski, not getting back any deposit because you " stained " the tatami is well worth it. num num
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<hr>I never said I did have any suggestions! I merely highlighted the issue at the start of this thread. However it appears impossible to have a reasoned debate<hr></blockquote>steve, what debate are we having here? You say it's stupid. You don't like it. Ok, I'm putting out logical, practical alternatives here. THAT'S DISCUSSION. You asked for precisely that, so don't harp about it. You want to b!tch and moan, fine. Once is enough, but until you come up with something more substantial than mere complaints, it's not a discussion.
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<hr>It is clear there is a mutual disagreement <hr></blockquote>Have you read what I wrote? Not once have I written that I support such a system, only that I understand and accept it and am willing to do what it takes to get my fair share out of it. I have provided quite a bit of useful information for people to make their own decisions here. So, in a sense, I agree with you on some points. But, you just seem to want to complain as if that will solve anything. It won't, except to vent some frustration, but that's all. What did you honestly expect to gain from venting here, other than an emotional release anyway?
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<hr>I'll tilt at any windmill I want too, so there. <hr></blockquote>Tilting at windmills, in case you didn't know, means to attack something futilely with hopes of defeating it. You're not doing that. You're just saying you don't like something. It's just as futile, if not more so, but it is not accomplishing anything, and you come off as a very juvenile debater.
Telephoto wrote:
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<hr>It adds signifcantly to the cost of doing business for companies who bring in overseas employees, it is bad for Japanese as if they change jobs they may find they have an additional cost when changing apartment to live closer to their work.<hr></blockquote>Now we're having a discussion! Companies often have their own dormitories or used apartments, so they don't have to pay key money over and over again. So that argument may be true in some cases, but not in everyone. How many? I don't know, but you can't make this out to be the norm. [By the way, just so you know, I have changed apartments three times now, and had to pay each time for the setup costs, so I'm not a person who has had the luxury of not footing the bill.]
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<hr>It is also completely at odds with the renting system anywhere else in the world AFAIK<hr></blockquote>"At odds?" That means it competes with such systems. Clearly, the Japanese system does not do that. It is its own unique (and unlikable and expensive) tradition. Of course, in another country where this is not done, the answer would be FY, but we are not talking about another country. That's comparing apples and oranges.
As I've said before about many things that Japan has to offer, if a person doesn't research about it beforehand, one is going to be surprised. That goes for any country, of course. If one goes regardless of knowing such drawbacks, one has no right to complain about it. No one put a gun to one's head to come and live there. This may sound harsh, but it is reality.
Even if someone does prior research and then turns up and is faced with something they dont like (ie Japanese apartment renting system), why shouldn't they be justified in complaining about it? They can still enjoy the Japan lifestyle package, while not being happy about one element.
Maybe if many people complain about it, some enterprising Japanese company will set up an apartment building in Japan which caters to foreigners or others on short (<1 year) stays who don't want to pay and this will be their competitive advantage.
Why should a company own an apartment so they don't have to keep paying this dead money? Companies are in business to make widgets or whatever they do, not to be in the staff accommodation business. Managing apartments just adds to the costs and means that (i) they have to buy an apartment, which ties up money that could be used elsewhere or (ii) they have to pay key money over and over again which is a disincentive to bringing people over.
First you imply I'm tilting at windmills, then you tell me I'm not! Make your mind up Grumpski. And while you may think of me as a "juvenile debator", I prefer to think of myself as a man of the people, backed by popular forum support, fighting against the evil tyranny of the Grumps-machine and its pompous conservatism.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
trusted partner
