Landlord's steal my money, I don't like it very much

Yup, reikin is a stupid system, and many Japanese complain about it too. You see, that concept is based on the old tradition that the landlord was more or less a true "lord" who took care of people in more ways than just renting a place to live in. People offered the gift to thank the "lord" for taking care of themselves or their relatives who would be in the "lord's" care. The word for the landlord, "ooya," sort of rhymes with "oya (parent)," and so there is even an old saying that an "ooya" is just like your "oya."

Everyone in Japan knows today that one's "ooya" is not at all like an "oya," and yet this old system persists to a large extent. It's a rip-off that everyone, except for the landlords of course, acknowledges as evil.

I do not know your background, but in the U.S., where I am, there is a shikikin, or a damage deposit, and oh yes, problems involving the demage deposit abound. That is not necessarily a Japan-unique situation, I think.

In some major US cities (NYC and Boston come to mind), there is often a reikin-like fee that tenants have to pay, and as Jacksan1 says, everybody in the US who has been a renter has a damage deposit story to tell...I have seen damage deposits of 2 months rent here, and the standard is one month...and some landlords just don't want to refund it and invent "damage" you have done to the apartment to justify keeping it...so see, it's tough for renters all over (the world)...

Deposits for security are not stupid. Don't you pay them back home? If you feel you have been overcharged for some damage, take it up with them professionally and legally.

If you don't want to pay reikin, find the rare landlord that doesn't ask for it. Emphasis on the word "rare".

Don't like the situation, live in a guest house or go home. I'm sorry but you should have known what you were facing before you came and agreed to the situation.

Thanks jacksan1, I didn't realise that about reikin. And I concede deposit money is standard practice, it just appears a bit more arbitrary in Japan as to whether you get it back or not. Maybe thats not the case though.

Glenski, if you read my post I didn't say deposits are stupid, I said the system is by which I meant the very large sums you pay (2 to 3 months rent is more than I thought it would be), and the arbitrary nature of returning the deposit. I don't particularly like the system but your comments of "live in a guest house or go home" are very unhelpful, I was raising the issue of reikin in particular for discussion as it seemed odd and unnecessary to me, and theres no need for your negative attitude.

daylight robbery counts as "stupid" to me. You simply don't like reikin. Fine, that's your prerogative. It may be odd and unnecessary to you, but what do you plan to do -- change the whole real estate culture of Japan? You can't, and that's why I suggested guest house, going home, or (and you obviously didn't pick up on this one, so don't call me completely negative) finding a realtor that doesn't charge reikin. Moreover, what other options (guest house, not living here) can you think of? You don't have to like them, but they ARE options, whether you label them as helpful or not. One negotiates, finds a realtor that has clients that already don't use this sytem, or you avoid the process altogether. The only other option I can think of is buying a house or mansion, but I felt those were not in the realm of this discussion, nor are they suitable for everyone, so I didn't bring them up. Do you have another solution?

Your remark of "arbitrary wishes of the landlord" is overly general, too. There are laws, I believe, about wear and tear. Can't find them at this second, but I probalby could, if pressed.

I have rented 3 apartments here, and in every case, I got back 95% of my deposits. Have other people been charged a huge amount and not gotten their money back? Yes, of course. Did they fight back? Couldn't tell you, but I've seen lots of people complain about these things online, and only a few decided to fight back. Some people tried, but they had obviously not read their contracts well enough, or they had caused sufficient damage to warrant the fees. Some got their money. Some landlords may have "arbitrary" ways of deciding how to charge you, but the 3 that I dealt with were very fair. Two sent their managers to the building the day I moved out instead of waiting for when I wasn't there and making their "arbitrary" decisions.

So, I guess one could offer a bit of advice in trying to cajol the managers to come and discuss the whole situation before one is long gone and later surprised (and often in no position to debate) matters. Not so negative now.

This is a good site from a realtor, with explanations on housing in great detail in Japanese and English.

Go to the last page and see a fairly nice description of what to do when moving out. An earlier page tells you the obvious things a renter should do when moving in to ensure he doesn't get screwed by a landlord who says the renter damaged something, when it was actually damaged before moving in.

Don't get me started about reikin etc. Next month we have to pay double rent because our two year contract is up for renewal- grrr. What a waste of money. Nothing we can do of course other than move, which would mean paying reikin to another landlord. Since I am actually the landlord of an apartment in NZ, I wish I could be on the receiving end of reikin, but all tenants have to pay in NZ is 2 or 3 weeks bond, which I don't see.

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<hr>It may be odd and unnecessary to you, but what do you plan to do -- change the whole real estate culture of Japan?<hr></blockquote>

Yes, Glenski, thats exactly what I meant. Actually I was merely commenting on an aspect of Japanese culture and calling it rather dumb, a fact that everyone else seems to agree with but you who, as always, insists on nit-picking.

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<hr>I have rented 3 apartments here, and in every case, I got back 95% of my deposits.<hr></blockquote>

Thats probably because you're such a palatable tennant Glenski.

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<hr>Not so negative now.<hr></blockquote>

You're right, you turned that gloom into rays of sunshine.

the key money is the easy part. it's finding a landlord willing to rent to a gaijin in the first place that's really frustrating...