Marrying a Pakistani woman

Greetings from the U.S.A,

I realize this website is used primarily for traveling information, however I am in need of both personal and travel advice. My situation is this: I am a muslim-american male (blonde and caucasian to be exact) that met the love of his life online, however she happens to live in Pakistan. Although I am a convert to Islam, I still know how the relationships are expected to occur, and I am convinced that this woman is the one for me so I will hopefully be traveling to Pakistan to ask her father's permission for 'nikah' (Islamic marriage). I certainly am comfortable with the amount of information I know about her, and feel quite confident proceeding forth with the idea (as is my family), however my main concern is her family/culture rejecting me, or worse.

I understand that Pakistan is going through political struggles and can be quite hostile to foreigners, especially Americans. What I really need to find out over the next few months is this:

• What is the best way to go about obtaining a VISA to Pakistan for marriage purposes?
• How should I approach a Pakistani-muslim father and explain my genuine love for and desire to marry his daughter?
• What are some cultural differences I should prepare myself for? How can I act as an appropriate guest for the country and people of Pakistan?
• What is the best way to guarantee her safety, especially considering others might not like the idea of a Pakistani woman marrying an American man (even though I am muslim)?

I am desperate to have as much information as possible regarding this topic. I am madly in love with this woman, and will do anything to see her happy. Unfortunately, it looks like there are some major obstacles that are yet to come.

Allah Hafiz
- pistol_pete_82

Just slow it down, you sound like you haven't a clue what you're getting into -- which is neither good nor bad. You are asking good questions, but slow down. Go for a visit where you can meet them and they can meet you. Leave out the love-of-your-life nonsense, and just try to get along. You would be marrying into the family, so you might as well be evaluating them -- they'll certainly be evaluating you (and that's not necessarily a bad system).

So you're an islamic convert; well whatever. That may get you some cred -- assuming they are Muslims??? How much money do you have? Can you support her as she is accustomed? Can you support her brother coming to the US for school? How about the rest of her family? Can you support them coming to the US? These probably need answers.

Assuming they are middle class??? (She's on the Internet; What's her education?) -- They likely speak some residual British English. Do you speak any Urdu? How are you going to find a taxi to their place? Take the Pimsleur Urdu course now, at least that's a start.

Have you traveled outside the US? Travel somewhere, anywhere -- before going to Pakistan. What do you know about their history, their culture, their place in society -- Remember you're considering marrying into their family, and into their culture. Get the stars out of your eyes and do your homework.

What is their attitude towards you -- you should know the answers to that, before you even ask. -- much less even consider asking her father for marriage. What's their attitude towards her communicating with, much less marrying you? Have they already accepted this? Do you have any idea what you're walking into? Your feelings for her and her secret Internet feelings to you may have nothing to do with anything. You must clarify the family situation long before even "outing" yourself.

I don't mean to be negative, it could be just fine, even very good -- however, I would back-off, lower my expectations and simply try to get through a cross-cultural visit, keeping my head as clear as possible, and starting from the beginning, presenting myself as a quality-guest as best I can for acceptance by her family -- as otherwise it could be an embarrassing mess or worse.

And whenever traveling in different cultures and countries, always stay very alert, always having a viable "Plan-B." This is way more complex than negotiating the purchase of a car, or interviewing for employment. Sorry for the rant; I'll leave your questions for others.

Hi pistol-pete,

You say you're convinced this woman is for you and that's a decision for you to make but I got to ask: have you actually met her personally or only through the internet? I would strongly suggest meeting in person before you make any move of binding marriage. (This has nothing to do with her or your country of origin.)

As for her family/culture rejecting you, it is a very circumstantial and personal thing. Just because many Pakistanis are suspicious of USA's motives (what with drone strikes and all) does not necessarily mean that all Pakistanis are anti-American. That you met her online to me indicates that your love-interest maybe herself quite westernized and obviously educated, which should imply that cultural differences between her and you may not be all that great. This is purely speculation though. There have been plenty of cross-cultural marriages between Pakistanis/Indians and westerners that work out beautifully despite deep cultural differences, right?

The cultural differences between the US and Pakistan are too great to summarize here.

I can't comment on Americans visiting Pakistan and I'll leave that to the Pakistani members of the forum, but I'd strongly advise you meet with her and her family personally before taking a big step. Is it possible for you and her (with her family if both of you want) to meet in a more neutral location? Maybe Dubai? Would that work?

Just thinking aloud.

best of luck

Edited by: insouciantguru

Are you sure you are going about this the right way, I am pretty sure I would not join thorntree for the specific purpose of resolving issues about marriage and culture. I think my first port of call would be to involve myself in soem way in the local pakistani community in your own country and do a little research through those contacts.

Thank you all for your honest responses, I'm not looking for kindness or support, just genuine answers. Let me fill in some more details for you to consider:

• She comes from an upper class family, she has a graduate degree and speaks English fluently, as do all of her family members. I have spoken to her many times (at least 50) and I know what she looks like (facebook). Obviously she is very well educated and comes from a more westernized background. All of her family has visited the U.S. before, and I have even spoken with her sister who resides here. I know all about her family, what they do, education, personalities, etc. She has shared every single detail with me, and I have verified some of them on my own (google), so I am quite comfortable with who they are.

• I also come from a similar background, my family is well off and I currently have a pretty good job in the united states and will be enrolling in a graduate program within the next year. I have told her every detail about my own family, and even spoken to them about her. They approve of her despite the cultural differences, but are worried about me traveling to Pakistan. That is my primary concern at this point.

Now, this isn't some 'love at first sight' mumbo-jumbo. I have carefully collected information about her life, family, personality, culture, career, etc. over the past few months and have spoken to no less than 12 people about this decision. My number one concern right now is traveling safely to Pakistan and making a good impression on her family, that is primarily why I came here. I just want to make sure that this decision is as well thought out as possible, for both her and I.

Well, you could always meet in a more neutral location such as Dubai first and put off your trip to Pakistan for later?

hi pete,

usually i wouldnt do this but shoot me an email on omairsaeed@hotmail.com and i will try to help you with all your travel arrangements here..... its just that you should not be at the wrong place at the wrong time..... your a brother in faith and hence will have to help u.....

Kudos for an xcellent response #1..

There're already some very appropriate responses to you're general situation, so I'll just comment on some of the more specific questions.

You seem concerned about visiting Pakistan, but you haven't told us where in Pakistan you intend to visit. Are we talking rural Balochistan, a medium sized city in Sindh, Lahore, Peshawar?

Get a tourist visa for your visit. Going to the embassy and asking about marriage proposal visas would be a little out of ordinary to say the least.

Pakistanis are generally very welcoming and hospitable people. Many do not like the US Government's foreign policies, but that doesn't mean they dislike Americans, and unsurprisingly,they know how it feels to be stereotyped as a people because of governmental policies and the media. I'm American, have been visiting Pakistan (all over) somewhat frequently for the past few years, and have never felt threatened. Most Pakistanis will be thrilled that you're muslim.

One of the best ways to prepare yourself for cultural differences you might experience should you decide to travel to Pakistan would be to learn as much about Pakistan as you can before leaving. No one on this forum will be able or willing to fully answer this general of a question for you. Guide books often give good advice on how to avoid faux pas and basic cultural norms. You might also want to consider more in-depth research regarding specific ethnic and/or political groups

Like everybody else said, visiting first might not be such a bad idea.

And last but not least, maybe you should just ask her all of these questions. It seems to me that to find the best way for you to ask her father and to make sure you're both safe, is simply to do what she tells you. After all, you're the one who's about to spend the rest of your life with a Pakistani. You should be the one telling us about the culture.

I'm wondering just how much you actually know about Islam, and about your motivations for converting.

You don't need a visa 'for marriage purposes'. It's not a cash-and-carry shopping trip. You're not going to meet this woman and marry her in the same week. You've created a fantasy about this entire situation -- you seem to think it's all about you marching up to her father and demanding he consent to your acquisition of his daughter.

But she is an educated, upper-class woman, not a tribal person available to the highest bidder. She will tell you what she expects and how to proceed. That is, if she decides that there are any longer term prospects. You should plan to respect her views on the matter, however things turn out, and not behave in the manner of an obsessed stalker (which is how you've portrayed yourself here).

Apply for a tourist from the relevant consulate in the US. Submit the usual, safe, predictable tourist itinerary -- Lahore, Islamabad, Taxila (but not Gilgit-Baltistan, sadly). Meet her, get to know each other, then together decide what to do. That is the only 'major obstacle'.

As a corollary to the above post by emmeff I just want to add that because your love interest is Pakistani does not necessitate she's religious. I have several westernized and educated Pakistani friends-most of whom are not religious even though they are Muslim in a cultural sense. (I'm Indian, and not Muslim and the cultural differences between us are all but negligible.) I agree with the sentiment expressed above by emmeff: the implication that you're conversion to Islam will smoothly pave the path to marriage of what is yet no more than an internet romance seems misplaced, at least from the outside. For one, it's one thing converting to a faith, quite another growing up in that culture.

You still haven't met each other!

Edited by: insouciantguru

great posts above
and sorry pistol pete if you dont like my response / advice.
i dont think that thinking of marrying a person you have never met is a good idea. its great that you have talked many times, and communicated over facebook, but well, thats not quite the same than actually being together. and lets be honest, everything can be posted over facebook.

i think you should get a tourist visa, fly to pakistan, and meet her, and her family. spend as much time there as possible, with her, her family, her friends. even if you should end up married with her and living in the us, pakistan will still be her "home base", so its important to have a good connection to her culture.

Wow, thank you all for this information, I really appreciate it everyone. I should let you know that I left out some more personal information, in case someone on here should recognize her or I.

I would travel to only Islamabad, anywhere else would be her decision. I would likely have one of her friends or someone she trusts guide me in the city should I go out, but any other travel tips would be extremely helpful for me. Any information on Islamabad would be helpful.

Now, my religion has little to do with her,as I was a muslim before I knew her. The marriage idea is mutual, she was the one who brought up the subject. Mentally, spiritually, and physically there is a mutual attraction between us, but we are afraid the cultural differences might create some issues with her family. I will definitely need to learn more about Pakistani culture, as it is a subject I am still new to. However, given the whole arranged-marriage aspect of the culture, it is difficult to 'get-to-know' someone this way, especially because I am a foreigner. It would be much easier for them to marry her off to a man of their choosing, rather than dealing with me. That is why I am planning this so carefully, I don't have my family there or my ethnicity to back me up, so I need to make as good of an impression as possible.

If she comes from an upper class Islamabad based family then be prepared for some contridictions. The upper class Punjabis that I have met and know vary in which aspects of their faith and traditions they still follow and which they do not. In some ways they will be very western and familiar and in others very different. They have all been to the USA so they know what Americans are like - they let there other daughter live there so they canot mind too much.

In answer to your questions:
1. Get a tourist visa. I think you can marry on a tourist visa anyway. If they are an upper class Punjabi family then they will probably have had at least one friend who has married a foreigner and therefore can give advise as to paperwork.
2. I think you should talk to your lady and her sister about the best way to approach her father.
3. As a guest you should eat a lot when served food, realise that as a guest in Pakistan you may not be allowed much personal time and space. Take your shoes off when inside. Don't instigate the conversation with the female mebers of the family unles they start it. You are a Muslim. If they are religious they will respect you, if not then they'll think you a little odd.
4. Guarantee her safety? Suggest that you set up life in the USA?

Do some research but do not also speak to her and her sister. Some upper class Punjabi families will be OK with letting their daughter choose who she marries, some won't and some will want to check you out thoroughly before they approve.
Do not worry too much about the country. Islamabad should not be too much of a culture shock.
Does the father know you exist? I think you should ask her or her sister or both about what they think the father will say. If the sister lives in the US then is she married, working or studying. Can you get in touch with a brother to set up a meeting.

Good luck and have fun in Islamabad...

HHEHEHEHE pete you are funny, are you for real?

Have you traveled to Pakistan yet? I am completely enthralled with a man from Karachi, I am too American and U.S. born, Muslim convert. We speak every single day, sometimes twice daily on Skype. Our conversations usually last a minimum of 2 hours. We are crazy for eachother, but I am always trying to distinguish reality from fairytale.

Have you met?

In love with love itself. Marriage finishes that off quickly..

I would love an update on how this all turned out. I'm starting to imagine myself being in the same spot you were in when you originally posted this (June 2013).

If you told me I was going to fall in love with someone online, all the way in Pakistan, by first meeting them on Twitter, I would have called you insane.

If someone told me that I would even think about online dating with anyone, I would called you crazy.

And if someone told me I would ever think of someone online more than just a "screen name", I wouldn't have believed you.

And yet, here I am and there she is. A lot of misconceptions have clearly been dismissed.

We started just flirting and talking on Twitter, which moved onto gmail, then skype, then facebook, then phone text, and even phone calls (cost 13 cents per minuted to hold a conversation via phone. lol )

We talk every day. And it's not just casual conversations when the other is online. We actually now seem to be working around things and making an affect to stay in regular contact.

She's won over my heart and though things are fairly early, you can't help but wonder about the future. And should things get to that point one day, I'd like to know as much as possible. I'm big on being well informed and educated for every possibility

What's happening to trigger this spate of first-time posters who have found true love in the form of an online relationship with a Pakistani? What am I missing, or indeed missing out on?

What am I missing, or indeed missing out on?

hahahaha.

In a more general sense, I would go to Pakistan with an open mind. Rid yourself of the notion that Pakistanis hate Americans. People in Pakistan are appalled by the conduct of the US Government in their country (and what level-headed individual isn't?), but it does not mean that they hate the citizens of America. Being a Muslim may well impress her family, especially if you live up to the ideals of the faith, but you are still absolutely a foreigner and outsider to their culture. Her father is not going to shoot you for being interested in her, but you need to work out your pitch, preferably after getting to know the family face-to-face.

If you have never been outside the US, or outside western countries, you are in for a shock when you reach Pakistan, though Islamabad is actually fairly westernised, on the surface at least. Try not to measure everything up to standards in the US, and remember they live in a culture which is far, far older than that of the US.