Crossing from China to Pakistan on the KKH

Dateline Gilgit!

There seems to be a good deal of confusion and misinformation about this route floating around the internet at the moment. As I am now sitting in the Madina Guesthouse in Gilgit having arrived from China yesterday I thought it would be helpful to clear things up.

Firstly, the rumour that "foreigners aren't allowed on public transport on the Chinese side of the KKH" is totally, entirely false, and after talking to people in Kashgar, and people who have made the trip in recent months I can assure all that this has NEVER been the case. Throughout this summer a modest trickle of foreign tourists have been taking the bus from Kashgar to Pakistan without difficulties.
The source of this rumour, which is being bandied about by some people as "fact", may be a garbled third-hand report about some+ people having trouble getting through Chinese customs without a Pakistan visa in advance. It may possibly have been encouraged by unscrupulous tour operators in Kashgar looking to rent expensive private transport; but i think the most likely explanation is simple confusion. Tourists travelling beyond Tashkurgan but +not+ crossing to Pakistan have +never been allowed to use public transport (though you can hire a jeep to visit the pass as a day trip and then return to Kashgar/Tashkurgan), but if you are heading for Pakistan you are free to use the bus - as you always have been...

On internet in Xinjiang - currently (as of October 13) there is a total statewide internet shutdown and there has been for almost four months. It is also impossible to make international calls in or out. This is why there has been such a deafening silence from the usual heavy-handed Kashgar-based travel agents on the thorntree, and has also contributed to the various misinformations about the China-Pakistan route. However, there are no other problems for tourists visiting Xinjiang, and I encountered no restrictions.

On visas - the visa on arrival IS still available at Sost. I had my visa in advance, but I met Americans in Kashgar who had been to Pakistan within the last month and who got their visas on the border. They knew of other people who had done the same. You need two passport photos, nothing more.
As for the stories about the Chinese being reluctant to let people through without a Pakistan visa - they reported no problems, and though I had my visa, at Tashkurgan and at the other checkposts beyond no one checked my passport for a Pakistani visa, only for my Chinese exit stamp.

On the practicalities:
Buses now run all the way from Kashgar to Gilgit (and vice versa) rather than only to Sost (though you can stop or pick up transport in Sost still - possibly a good idea as I shall explain).
The bus leaves Kashgar International Bus Stand, in theory every day, at 10 am Xinjiang time (12pm Beijing time). A ticket costs RMB 350 to Gilgit, or, I think, 270 to Sost.
Both Chinese buses and Pakistani (NATCO) buses run the route.

HOWEVER, if the bus due to depart on a given day is the Chinese bus (a big, blue Chinese sleeper bus) and there are LESS THAN 10 PASSENGERS it will not run.
I went to the bus station on monday and tuesday, waited around, and was told to come back tomorrow after only 5 people turned up.

If, on any given day it is the Pakistani bus which is due to depart it will depart regardless - as it did on wednesday.
Apparently NATCO also runs transport between Sost and Tashkurgan every day, so if there is no bus from Kashgar and you can get to Tashkurgan you should still be able to get to Pakistan the next day. The problem is, however, that the daily Tashkurgan bus leaves before the scheduled departure of the Pakistan bus from Kashgar. Waiting in Kashgar is probably the better option - a bus will leave eventually!

An overnight stop in Tashkurgan is still required. The road is now excellent from Kashgar to Tashkurgan. The bus still stops at the "Traffic Hotel" there. Five years since my last visit their rates are exactly the same - RMB 80 for a single; RMB 15 for a dorm. The singles are fine; the dorm itself is fine (four beds), though there is no shower and the communal bathrooms are not the best.
The bus headed on from Tashkurgan the following morning at about 9 local time, though this seems to be fairly relaxed.
Customs procedures at Tashkurgan for the departing bus were fairly swift with no thorough searches of baggage. However, people I met in Kashgar reported much longer delays when the bus was full of Pakistani traders (which it wasn’t yesterday). There were several checks of passports further along the road, but only for the Chinese exit stamp.

The road from Tashkurgan to the pass is excellent, and the journey took, I think, less than three hours. However, immediately you cross to the Pakistani side things deteriorate greatly. There is currently “improvement” work going on all the way from Khunjerab top to Gilgit (and beyond, apparently), making for a very bumpy ride. Things will likely be like this for at least the next 18 months, but after that the KKH should be excellent.

There is still a UU$4 dollar fee to pay for entry to the Khunjerab National Park, paid at the checkpoint between the pass and Sost. You can pay in dollars, RMB or rupees.
You'll see a lot of Chinese road crews working all the way to Gilgit – some of them women!
The charming customs officials at Sost "exempted" Mr Foreigner from any checks. There is no official money changer in Sost, but virtually any shop in the bazaar will change Chinese money for you at a decent rate.

The road onwards to Gilgit is rough, though yesterday it still only took about 7 hours, getting into Gilgit main bus stand at 10.30pm. You will struggle to get transport into town from the bus stand at that time; it may be better to get them to drop you in the bazaar as they come through... Of course, if you are not heading back into China later you should get down long before Gilgit to see Hunza, which remains one of the absolute highlights of Pakistan. Passu would be the obvious first stop south of Sost – or perhaps Gumit or Karimabad.

When departing for China the bus from Gilgit apparently leaves at night, reaching Sost early in the morning. I would strongly suggest making your own way to Sost and picking it up there if you're heading that way – there’s no need to rattle through Hunza on those terrible roads during the night!

I will be doing this return trip in a couple of weeks so will report back if there is any important information.

Hopefully this report will clear up some of the misinformation that has been floating around.
HOWEVER, I should note that the pass will close before too long. There is no snow on the Chinese side, but on the Pakistan side there have already been some falls, and given the current state of the road they will struggle to keep it open once winter really starts. I doubt that this will be a year when you can still get through in December... Next year everything could be different!

Anyone interested in this route can PM me if you want more information.

Tim

Cross-posted on the China branch

Top post- this is what LPTT is for!!!

Many thanx

Precious and detailed update.Indeed it does clear many misinformation and false news about crossing Pak-China border.
Tanks Tim.
Have fun.

Bonjour from Islamabad,

Informative report, that'll definitely help the over Landers at Sust, getting a VOA.

Merci mon ami.

Enjoy the marvels of Pakistan.

The photos of Pakistani faces, mountains and cities

This is great info timdog (and others)! We were just planning not to go to KKH/Pak because we got refused a Paki visa in Dushanbe (Tajikistan). Consul was very, very friendly, but refused us nonetheless (we had to apply in our homecountry).

We're still doubting though, because of safety issues in Pakistan after recent incidents in Peshawar and Rawalpindi. We're on a self-drive overland trip, driving a Daihatsu Feroza 4WD to Nepal. It's red and there are quite some stickers on the sides. I guess public transport is pretty safe, but we kind of fear to be sitting ducks in our car. Is this fear legitimate? As we're in Tajikistan right now with bad internet, texting info to us is also much appreciated. +(992)917194160

Cheers!
Vincent
(crossposted in other thread)

Bonjour from Islamabad,

I felt sorry for you and the visa complexities, but what to do?

Things're worsened, as soon as the government seemed keen uprooting the militant hideouts from the south Waziristan, much retaliation is posed in shape of attacks on the security forces and military installations.

It is not advisable to the foreign travelers to travel closer to the areas like Swat valley and Smugglers' bazar (Peshawar), avoid the public gatherings, crowded and busy places, markets etc. while traveling in or across Pakistan.

We’re going through the scrutiny but I hope the beautiful days are not very far.

Bon voyage,

The photos of Pakistani faces, mountains and cities

Thanks guys; my hope was to provide a detailed and thorough account as information on the internet on the subject seems to have been patchy and sometimes contradictory this year. It's just a shame that before too long the pass will close - and none of this information should be taken as accurate for next year, until the first tourist comes across in May and is able to update it!

Vincent, I replied to your PM.

Thanks Timdog: This was what I was wanting; very recent firsthand information. Too often on this site, I find repeated information that may or may not be true, presented by people who are not there and probably have not ever been there.

thanks Tim for your extended and valious post. Now I am in my way to Kashgar and it is really hellpfull to now what sap now there. Tankks again.
Rodrigo

Wish U a fun trip to Kashgar.

Excellent post Tim. I made the trip from Kashgar to Gilgit in June and found the details of the journey to be more or less exactly the same as you describe.

One small detail to add to your post - about 20 yards away from the entrance to the Traffic Hotel in Tashkorgan is a building with a public shower, and you can have a hot shower here for about 4 yuan. This sorts out the problem of there being no showers in the Traffic Hotel itself.

Giora

Hot shower is always good yeah.

Extremely helpful report. A thousand thanks timdog. Much appreciated.
I hope your return trip will be equally exciting.
Nice trip.

Great helpful report

{quote:title=timdog wrote:}{quote}

Firstly, the rumour that "foreigners aren't allowed on public transport on the Chinese side of the KKH" is totally, entirely false, and after talking to people in Kashgar, and people who have made the trip in recent months I can assure all that this has NEVER been the case. Throughout this summer a modest trickle of foreign tourists have been taking the bus from Kashgar to Pakistan without difficulties.
The source of this rumour, which is being bandied about by some people as "fact", may be a garbled third-hand report about some+ people having trouble getting through Chinese customs without a Pakistan visa in advance. It may possibly have been encouraged by unscrupulous tour operators in Kashgar looking to rent expensive private transport; but i think the most likely explanation is simple confusion. Tourists travelling beyond Tashkurgan but +not+ crossing to Pakistan have +never been allowed to use public transport (though you can hire a jeep to visit the pass as a day trip and then return to Kashgar/Tashkurgan), but if you are heading for Pakistan you are free to use the bus - as you always have been...

With respect, I have to challenge your assertion here and suggest that you are misrepresenting the issue with your first statement in that paragraph. When I travelled through Kashgar in September the question was whether foreigners, especially travellers NOT on scheduled public transport, were being stopped en route to Tashkurgan. It was very much a live and unresolved issue then.

In Aug 2009, a poster offered a similar account and reported the experiences of people he'd met (see message 34):

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?messageID=16119880#16119880

In the end, neither he on his bicycle nor I in my shared rented jeep had a problem passing that particular check post. However, I respectfully submit that you are going over the top when accusing people of bandying about rumours without having been there. The confusion is understandable in the context of changing security measures and the circumstances are/were very fluid.

As for the stories about the Chinese being reluctant to let people through without a Pakistan visa - they reported no problems, and though I had my visa, at Tashkurgan and at the other checkposts beyond no one checked my passport for a Pakistani visa, only for my Chinese exit stamp.

Again, none of the people on my bus who needed visas on arrival had any problems with Chinese immigration on 15 Sep 2009, but I think there is enough anecdotal evidence on this site and elsewhere to demonstrate that this was a problem in the past. The website for Northern Areas tourism even has a warning on this in the news ticker on some of its pages. See:

www.visitnorthernareas.gov.pk/aboutus.htm</a>

On a related matter, I've tried to contact that office to get clear advice on the date the Khunjerab Pass closes, but the listed phone numbers do not work and no one has responded to the email I sent last week. I've also tried to find information from PTDC but their website ( www.tourism.gov.pk</a> ) is down and the phone number for the PTDC Motel in Sost (which allegedly closes on 15 Nov each year) that I found online doesn't work. I've resorted to emailing the MD of PTDC at an address found on a Pak government portal, but I'm not optimistic.

Anyone with a better idea or better access, please feel free to pursue this.

Apparently NATCO also runs transport between Sost and Tashkurgan every day, so if there is no bus from Kashgar and you can get to Tashkurgan you should still be able to get to Pakistan the next day. The problem is, however, that the daily Tashkurgan bus leaves before the scheduled departure of the Pakistan bus from Kashgar. Waiting in Kashgar is probably the better option - a bus will leave eventually!

Or share a jeep from Kashgar's western bus station to Tashkurgan to join the next day's bus from there. Depending on your negotiating skills and how keen the driver is for the business, the total cost of a jeep will range from 300-400 yuan. But then you will still need to pay 225 yuan to get the bus to Sost.

Cross-posted on the China branch

I'll do likewise with this response.

Thanks for going to the trouble to provide the update.

many a slip twixt the cup and lip

Just did this trip on October 20 and can confirm that all Tim's details are spot on.
One thing to add - the Chinese road workers don't work to a timetable and are currently blasting the road between exit of the national park and Sost.

For us this meant what seemed like a whole mountain of rocks covering the road. Luckily for us we tried our luck scrambling over and got a lift to Sost on the other side but all the local people on the bus couldn't leave all their gear so they spent the night in the bus. The bus could move again after about an 18 hour wait for the road to clear. So maybe take a bit more food than you think you may need because chances are you may have to spend a day/night on the bus in the freezing weather.

Great post.
I've just came back from KKH and had wonderful time there.
I crossed Khunjerab from China to Pakistan by NATCO bus with no problem.

Yes it is true take a bit more food than you think you may need because chances are you may have to spend a day/night on the bus in the freezing weather. I would also add to keep warm gairs with you as the weather is freezing.
Enjoy your trip.

Good suggestion.

heledd - nasty! Sounds like I was lucky in that respect. Good to have the warning, thanks...

Okay.

Hey Tim, I'm being pedantic, but only one photo is required by Pakistani immigration.

stop spreading erroneous information around mate...wink wink :)

Steele (from Karimabad)

Edited by: Milkjug

Thanks for this helpfull information.

Does anybody know the prices of a Pakistan visa and if it is hassle free for an EU citizen (Dutch)?
Is this a 1 month visa? I've also heard rumours about a kkh transit visa.
If I am not mistaken the border closes definetly at the 1st of January till may or so, if the road has not snowed in before that time?

I am now in central asia and on my way to Nepal, since Tibet is closed to foreigners I think the kkh is my only other overland option.

Niels.

No idea about the price of visa for EU citizen and I don't think one could have lot's of problem to get Pakistani visa.
If you re in central Asia then get a LOI from your embassy in the host country.
The official closure date of Pak/China border (Sost) is 31st of December but if snows before then it could be closed.
Visas on arrival re delivered in Pak/China border for a month initially but later you could extend up to 6 months in Gilgit,Skardu,Chitral as well as in Islamabad.
Have a good day.

Visa prices vary by country - just about every country in the world seems to pay a different price for a Pakistani visa at the Sost border. I would guess that you are looking at something between 30-60 USD, which is what most other European nationalities pay. The visa is a 1 month visa. It is very easy to extend this once you're in Pakistan - Gilgit and Lahore are meant to be good places to get visa extensions (Islamabad is a bad place to get a visa extension). Visas can be extended for AT LEAST 6 months, and 3 month extensions are straight-forward.

Giora

Bonjour mse amis,

It is expensive for American travelers, rest of the nationalities, 30 to 60 US $ at Sust.

Better to make it before the last week of November, the climatic conditions, of the mountainous regions of Pakistan worsened since 2004, very hot summers and harsh early winters.

Enjoy the marvels of Pakistan.

Photos of treks from Everest and Pakistan,

Travel tips for Pakistan

Thanks,

Because I'm going to be short on time to get to the KKH in time, I've also been looking into getting through Tibet to Nepal.
Does anybody know if it is possible to enter Tibet to Lhasa with a permit from the west (Kashgar or Urumqi)?
I've heard that the only possibillity is with air or train travel, but I don't know if there are any trains from there, and I like to consider air travel as my last resort. Maybe stay in Lhasa a couple of days and then travel on to Kathmandu without visiting other places in Tibet to keep my expenses down. Will the tourguide I require join me in Lhasa and will it be a problem to exit Tibet to Nepal? I guess I will have to hire a vehicle to get me to Nepal.

This is if the friendship highway stays open off course, I couldn't find any information about it closing or snowing shut.

Niels.

All the luck.

I'd seen some ads in Thamel for Lhasa bus service.

Steele - shit, hoist by my own petard there - I was, I confess, passing on secondhand information (from some Americans who managed to get the VOA without any photos by smiling sweetly at the immigration guys and saying sorry). I hang my head in shame... Hope you guys are having fun.

kneutel - There is a road, the notorious Highway 219, from Xinjiang to Ali in the extreme west of Tibet. It's a sort of holy grail amongst hardcore cyclists, and foreigners have certainly managed to travel along it in the past. There is even an infrequent bus - which takes three days and only dumps you at Ali, still several days from central Tibet, Lhassa etc...

However, the road has never been technically open to foreigners. Cyclists have managed to sneak around checkposts in the night, and people on buses or trucks have, it seems, had a blind eye turned at times of tranquility. However, given that the political situation in both Tibet and Xinjiang is a little fraught at the moment, the chances of being let through are, I think, very slim indeed.

The road starts just beyond Karghilik, east of Kashgar. Last week I took a taxi from Karghilik trying to reach, not Tiet, but the valley of the Upper Yarkand River, about 250 kms along this road. About 180 kms out of Karghilik we ran into an enormous and very serious checkpoint. There was absolutely no chance whatsoever of me getting past, even when I offered to surrender my passport with them to continue for an hour or so.

Also, this is not a good season to be travelling this road - conditions are rough, altitudes extreme and at this time of year the temperatures genuinely life threatening. And given how long the journey would take it would probably take less time to get to Nepal through Pakistan if you hurried (which you shouldn't! Pakistan is worth as much time as possibe...)

Merci mon ami.
One'll have to go across India from Pakistan to Nepal.

And how about hitch-hiking the KKH?

Were there any attempts?
I believe it's not possible to hh entire KKH, but at least up to Tashkurgan and down from Sost or Passu.

Tomek

I've hitch-hiked stretches of the KKH, in both China and Pakistan. You have to pay for the rides generally (though I did catch a couple of free rides in Pakistan), so it makes just as much sense to take the bus. Between Sost and Gilgit, bus prices are very cheap, and nearly every vehicle along the KKH is either a big truck or some form of public transport. You'll need the stars smiling down on you in order to scrounge a free ride on the KKH in China.

Giora

excuse me for silly question, but pakistan is muslim country so what if i have in my backpack 1,5-2 litres of vodka during crossing Khunjerab pass? %D

is it restricted to bring? will custom guys say to me - u have to drink it all - right here, right now!, - ???

Well, it is a silly question, but still... In my case there were no checks whatsoever on bags belonging to foreigners when crossing the Pakistani border in either direction. There were, however, much more serious checks on the Chinese side, and I don't suppose they would be averse to stealing vodka.
I'm not sure how the customs guys would react; they certainly didn't have the look of the morality police about them, so it seems more likely that they would be inclined to pinch it for their own consumption than come down on you with stern Islamic morality, though probably neither.

In any case, alcohol - both smuggled from China, and locally brewed hooch - is both widely drunk and widely, though not necessarily openly, available in the mountains north and west of Gilgit. You can actually buy Chinese beer openly in Hunza. Why would you bother with the vodka?

On hitchhiking - as Giora says...