- In Baltistan I got in trouble for putting the thumbs up sign as meaning "good" So why is it offensive in Baltit culture?
2. Why do some young poplars in Baltistan have rags tied around them? Habib from the Medina Hotel claims that it is to stop the bark from being eaten by goats but I met someone in Khapalu who told me that it had some spiritual significance. So what is the reason?
3. I noticed small buildings that looked like spirit houses in Baltistan and I have heard that there are other religions that people practice to varying degrees secretly. I realise that anything "occult" doesn't sit well with Islamic values which is why I found it very hard to find anyone who could tell me the truth here. So now that you can hide behind your handle, can someone tell me the extent of "other" religions in these remote Baltistan valleys?
4. Someone told me that the reason that one now has to have a guide to go to the Hushe Valley is that there was an "incident" with a foreign party and some locals in Hushe last summer. Does anyone know what exactly happened in this "incident"?
5. On the topic of guides, I was approached a lo of times in Khapalu by people wanting to be my guide. So can any Pakistani be a "guide" or do they need some sort of certification? Also how does the 10,000 rupees guides charge compare with an average day's pay in Pakistan?
6. On the topic of "incidences", I heard that the reason that foreigners can now no longer ride from the Kunjerab Pass to Taxkurgan (China) is because some foreign cyclists (German if I remember correctly) decided to go off the KKH and go caught (and now we are paying the price). So how far exactly did these cyclists go off the KKH and what harm could they have done anyway? PS And people wonder why I hate the Chinese government!
I was amazed that if one is Pakistani or of Pakistani appearance, one can go from Khapalu to Korkondus in the Kondus Valley on the local bus for a mere 50 rupees! If people don't know where the Kondus Valley is, it is described as the most beautiful valley in the world and even surpasses Trango Tower in grandeur. The big question is if I was to dress like a local and could get smuggled onto the bus (using carefully rehearsed hand signals), could I make it all the way? I am really asking about what happens at the checkpoints - do the security guards just walk onto the bus, see if there is anyone who does not look local and then walk out or do they check everyone's ID? If there are any guides who are will to smuggle me in I will pay top top dollars. Please send me a private message.
man_from_oz
1
r4e
It sounds interesting about the Balti's and their religious beliefs. How can rags keep away a goat? a religious reason sounds much more plausable and likely.
Regarding the Kunjerab, the Chinese are typically paranoid about anything they can't control, and if three german cyclists did go for a 'roam' then certainly that might have contributed. Other reports however (and secret rumours) point to a stricter border control policy after 9/11 as well as shady activities by the Chinese government around that area that they don't want people to know about. It's a shame about the restriction, but cycling from Taxkorgan can still be fun...
2
chitralguy
Salut mon ami,
Habib's right, it's just to protect the polplars from the livestock, especially goats, they're the true devils, nothing spiritual, if there were any shrine close to any poplar tree, may be.
I don't know anything about the incident in Hushe valley.
When we talk about a tour leader (Mountain,trekking,culture), there's a credibilty for him or her.
Language, must be at least a good English speaker, if couldn't speak French or any other foreign language.
One should be attached with Alpine club or Adventure Foundation Pakistan, and partcipate the courses, which're offered by them.
Ministry of tourism, gives a licence to the tour leaders.
The people you meet in the streets or in the hotels, they're not guides, okay.
Bon Voyage,
<hr>Mountains of Pakistan
3
karakorumhighway
Thanks for message, let me highlight you something from your point 4
Nothing happened special, it is area of mountains, many climbers are just getting injured.
In relation to guide, well, there is special certification from concern department. I know many people trying to be a guide with foreign tourist. I recomand you if you wanna have guide just to sign with a tour operator from Islamabad. They are more expert in the given field.
regarding go off KKH, normally it take 2-3 days from Khunjerab pass - Tashkurgan for cyclist. but depends how many hours or per day basis you are cycling. But this is i can assure you that from Khunjarb Pass to Tashkurgan is good. I went last year with a tour and have to pick our group from Eurmqi as i saw i am telling you the story. Stay at Karkuli Lake, i hope you will enjoy it while looking towards Muztag Atta peak, it will be just fron of you. Onece you will be at top, you just feel that flying instead of having cycling, cause you are cycling down hill.
4
barirana
Interesting questions and I think I can help with some answers.
The thumbs up in Baltistan means the same the same as the middle finger in Western culture, so it's easy to see why you would get in trouble. Most of the men who know about Western culture don't have a problem with it but in the villages it could be trouble.
The rags around the trees keep the goats off.
Islam has only been around in Baltistan for less tha 300 years. Before that, they were all Buddhist with heavy influences of Bon. You can still see a lot of that influence in the culture if you are around it much. I'm not sure about the spirit houses, but they have many superstitions which come from the earlier backgrounds.
I haven't heard of any incident in Hushe. There have been many trekkers who have gone out by themselves and had difficulties though. The mountains in Pakistan are deceptive and the glaciers can be very difficult to negotiate. If visitors do get lost or injured, the nearest village gets the blame even if the people chose to go alone. That's why they request that you take a guide. It makes sense to take a guide with you anyway because they give insight to the culture and are not very expensive.
There are many "guides" in Pakistan. Some may have an actual guide's license, but most don't. And having the license doesn't mean they are a good guide. Or vice versa. Some of the best guides I know don't have licenses. Try to find someone who speaks good English and is from the area you want to travel in. There are many good guides from the Hushe area. 10,000 rupees is not the average guide salary. Maybe you meant 1000? If you hire only a guide without any other services, it will cost anywhere from 500 to 2000 rs. per day. Per day guides make very good money compared to other jobs, but they work less than 6 months of the year. And guides who work for companies get slightly lower rates.
Not sure why the Chinese are so stiff, but it would be great if they would loosen up a bit.
It will be impossible to go to Kondus even if you dressed like a local. It's not only the checkpoints you have to worry about. Every village has their own police and then there are secret police as well. It would be impossible to trick one of them into believing you are a Balti. There are a few places from the Hushe side where you could probably get views into the Kondus side, but you would need some advanced mountaineering skills.
Hope that helps. You can pm me if you have more questions.
Bari
6
barirana
The goats eat the bark off the small trees. The rags keep them from doing that although I don't know why the goats don't eat the rags and then the bark. It seems to work well.
7
willemspie
I can answer 4. It didn't occur last year, but well in 1996 or 1997 or so. Before that, Hushe used to be in the 'Open Zone'. I trekked there alone personally in 94 or 95. But some trekkers crossed the Gondoghoro La and went to Concordia on their own, which is why the status was then changed.
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