My girlfriend and I are imminently departing for the US.
We hope to use the Visa Waiver Programme as UK residents.
We arrive in the east, and aim to spend 8 weeks bicycling through the States. We will exit the US to see friends in Canada- surrendering our I94-W forms- and stay there for a month. We then want to cross back in to the States for a further 6 weeks to fly home from LA on a new Visa Waiver Programme .
We understand the trickiness we may face at immigration both arriving and re-entering the States, but we have an itinerary, plenty of cleared cash funds, and a ticket home.
HOWEVER, what we fear is being stopped at our initial entry by the fact that our return flight from LA to London will be way more than 90 days after our arrival in Detroit.
What are peoples advice on our Visa Waiver Plan issues / ideas.
Getting a B1 visa in the UK entails a 4week wait at least, which we aren't able to wait for- we've got a wedding to get to in the US before then! Applying for a B1 Visa from Canada sounds hard, although anyone's advice on this would be appreciated too.
Thanks
Ben and Tab
You waited until you're about to depart to look into whether you can use the VWP? I assume you know about ESTA (pre-approval required for using the VWP). This info is critical (the exact wording is from a different U.S. Embassy but the regs are the same): "You cannot extend the time on the Visa Waiver Program. The 90 days also includes any time spent in Canada, Mexico and adjacent Islands. Therefore you cannot cross the border into these areas and then return for another 90 days. You can however ask for re-entry on the Visa Waiver Program if you have left the continent."
You should have plenty of time to go through the ESTA process. Can you adjust your travel time to keep it under 90 days?
For entrance under VWP you are required to have a departing ticket within 90 days of arrival. You do not. You do realize there is a good chance you won't even be allowed to board your flight to the US? The gate agents do check and they do know the rules.
Then, after missing your flight, you will have to make last minute changes to your return ticket at your own expense.
Having an itinerary and lots of cash isn't going to satisfy the requirement you don't have. If you do make it to a US port of entry, the immigration agent will likely laugh in your face about the wedding.
You know the rules and you chose to ignore them. Could be an expensive mistake. If you are turned back, you'll probably miss the wedding anyway. And it's your own fault.
.
Hi
Sorry, wasn't clear there.
We've been approved with ESTA.
We fly in to Detroit, that's where we hope to get the initial VWP; our concern is that our return flight from LAX 18 weeks later is going to give us problems- though we will be spending 5 weeks of this time in Canada.
When we leave the States we will hand in our I 94 W cards. By handing in the I 94 W cards, we are registering as leaving the US, so our VWP is stopped. There's no limits on reapplying (as we will be one month later), just as long as you can convince the immigration officer, which I believe we can as we have a return ticket and plenty of cash.
Our main query relates to the problem of a return date 18 weeks after our arrival, because the VWP, as you so helpfully point out, is only valid for 90 days including time in Canada, Mexico, etc.
So maybe I should rephrase: does anyone out there think we can get in to the US with our return flight 18 weeks after our arrival because we'll be registering as leaving for Canada for 5 weeks.
We did do a search and read plenty of stuff but couldn't find anything matching our requirements, hence asking others' experiences.
Thanks
Ben
When we leave the States we will hand in our I 94 W cards. By handing in the I 94 W cards, we are registering as leaving the US, so our VWP is stopped.
No. First of all, you will not be given an I-94. That's been phased out for people arriving by air under the VWP.
Second, crossing into to Canada will NOT end or suspend your VWP period. The clock starts ticking the minute you are cleared through immigration and does not stop until you have left for somewhere that is not Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean. The clock is not suspended while you are in Canada.
Third, in order to enter under the VWP, you must have an onward ticket that takes you to some place that is not Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean, within 90 days. You do don't have that. You might get lucky and Immigration won't ask, so you get admitted under the VWP. When you depart the US by plane, the airline will notify the US authorities that you have left. You will now be on the books as having overstayed your Waiver. You will no loner be able to enter under the VWP..
You haven't been "approved by ESTA".
It is just a piece of paper with documentation that the airlines use to make sure you are not on a no-fly list.
It does not allow you to enter the US, nor does it require you to be boarded on the airline.
You still must meet the requirements for VWP. You have already admitted you don't. Face the consequences.
As noted here regularly, even though you have received the ESTA form (just one step in the approval process and not the same as getting a visa, of course), and IF the airline were allow you to board the flight, entry to the U.S. would be at the discretion of the immigration officer at the Detroit airport. I thought that you'd be ineligible to apply for a visa in Canada once you've entered the U.S. under the VWP (assuming you get that far) and have not yet returned home, but others will know better. Since you apparently made travel plans based on a misinterpretation of the VWP regs (and many people do seem to find them confusing), I hope you can change them now (e.g., come back home after the stay in Canada, or cancel that part for the U.S. bicycling). Good luck.
Thanks for the prompt replies peeps, much appreciated. Seems we've dug ourselves in to a nasty 90 day hole then.
How about this then:
We fly to Toronto, with our return out of LAX 18 weeks later.
We bicycle to Detroit, getting the VWP and the I-94 on the way. I understand crossing by land in private vehicles (bikes) you don't need an outward ticket?
We make our way to the wedding (in Lynchburg Virginia, by the way), and back up to Canada to meet friends in Ottawa (This should take about 75 days).
At the border we give in the I-94 (and hopefully thus terminating that particular VWP)
We spend our planned 5 weeks up in Canada.
We come back to the States and talk on the border with our bikes and return ticket from LAX and hope that we can get through (the most obvious worst cas scenario we aren't allowed back in and have to get a return flight from Canada and all the obvious misery this will cause).
Is this a feasible option?
Once again, much appreciating the opinions of others.
Cheers
At the border we give in the I-94 (and hopefully thus terminating that particular VWP)
No, no, and no. It's not about the I-94; it's about needing to go somewhere that is not Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean. The 90-day clock does not stop ticking until you do that.
We fly to Toronto, with our return out of LAX 18 weeks later.
If you transit the US, even for a couple of hours on the way to Toronto, you must clear US immigration & customs. The 90-day clock starts then.
From my limited understanding of the rules, what you need is a vacation from your vacation -- a relatively cheap week or two that is just outside the area considered "North America" under the VWP, so you can go there and re-start the 90-day clock. Check me on the specifics of these countries meeting that definition, but the two best bets that come to mind would be Iceland and Central America south of Mexico (like Belize, Costa Rica, or Nicaragua). Because Iceland is closer to the UK, I'd go with Central America. Specifically, I'd research pronto a way to either fly into Cancun, Mexico and transit overland into Belize (going to Cancun only because there are often cheap flights to there) or fly directly into the Central American destination of your choice.
trusted partner
