visa waiver and itinerary logistics - can you help, please?

bzookaj, I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm still sticking to my guns regarding entrance for people previously declined a visa on a visa waiver according to the US embassy web sites:

While travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not ineligible to travel visa under the Visa Waiver Program, they will be questioned by an immigration official at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

Having considered the matter further. It may be more in my favour to return to the UK within the 90 days - this coincides with my mother's birthday, so would by no means be an inconvenience - and would at least demonstrate my intention to leave the US an return to the UK. After returning home for a short while, I can then embark on the second leg of my journey by flying straight to Mexico.

Either way, its a gamble.

I really appreciate everybody's contributions to this thread - although I was hoping for reassurance that all would be ok, the reality is that I have every reason to be concerned. And I thank you for the reality check.

It's typical that I only applied for a visa to give me a bit more flexibility and it looks like it may screw me up completely.

I will have to make a decision on my flight out of the US and book it, so I have the ticket to show when I attempt to enter the US and hope that I will be able to convince the authorities my intentions are true.

Please wish me luck! I've got a horrible feeling I'm going to need it. Any further advice or comment on this is most welcome

#19, it appears you are reading what you want to hear. Have you read those provisions (Section221(g) and 214(b))? Do you qualify? Or are you saying you do because you were simply denied a visa? That is a bad assumption if you are.

For your enlightenment:
>Section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act reads:
>
>(g) No visa or other documentation shall be issued to an alien if (1) it appears to the consular officer, from statements in the application, or in the papers submitted therewith, that such alien is ineligible to receive a visa or such other documentation under section 212, or any other provision of law, (2) the application fails to comply with the provisions of this Act, or the regulations issued thereunder, or (3) the consular officer knows or has reason to believe that such alien is ineligible to receive a visa or such other documentation under section 212, or any other provision of law: Provided, That a visa or other documentation may be issued to an alien who is within the purview of section 212(a)(4), if such alien is otherwise entitled to receive a visa or other documentation, upon receipt of notice by the consular officer from the Attorney General of the giving of a bond or undertaking providing indemnity as in the case of aliens admitted under section 213: Provided further, That a visa may be issued to an alien defined in section 101(a)(15) (B) or (F), if such alien is otherwise entitled to receive a visa, upon receipt of a notice by the consular officer from the Attorney General of the giving of a bond with sufficient surety in such sum and containing such conditions as the consular officer shall prescribe, to insure that at the expiration of the time for which such alien has been admitted by the Attorney General, as provided in section 214(a), or upon failure to maintain the status under which he was admitted, or to maintain any status subsequently acquired under section 248 of the Act, such alien will depart from the United States.

More here.

Please read carefully. If you are expecting to use this as a basis for readmission, you need to be damn sure you meet the provisions you are citing.

In any event, please let us know what happens.

Oh, one more thing you should know... by using the visa waiver, you waive all right to protest a denied entry, should it occur.

Ask a stupid question....

I really appreciate everybody's contributions to this thread - although I was hoping for reassurance that all would be ok, the reality is that I have every reason to be concerned. And I thank you for the reality check.

The reality is that a visa denial does not automatically disqualify you from entering under the VWP as the other poster suggested. A denial is certainly not a plus (especially if it is recent), but it is not a mandatory ground for exclusion. It is highly recommended that not try to enter under the VWP if you have been denied a visa and that is the point that the State Department advisory quoted in the first response was making. But it is still within the discretion of the inspecting officer to allow you to enter.

A return ticket back home is strong evidence of an intent not to overstay. Be prepared to articulate your travel plans and your understanding about why the visa was denied. You should state that you have changed your travel plans as a result of the visa denial. Make sure you are appropriately dressed and have some verification of how you will fund your trip.

Contrary to what some non-US clever clogs (thanks to Jasper for that quaint Angloism) would like you to believe, exclusion at the point of entry is not common and it creates a lot of extra work for a lot of people. Front line guys do not rack up career points by turning back garden variety itinerant UK backpackers.

But no one can give you reassurance that it will be ok. If you have time you might recontact the US embassy for their take on the situation. Good luck.

I did a bit of research on this a few months back on behalf of my partner who was not sure about eligibility for VWP, all be it for different reasons to you.

First and foremost bzookaj’s advice appears to be sound. If you don’t want to take it don’t, but it is not worth arguing on these pages, he’s not the one you have to convince!

Secondly we were given this advice “anyone who would be let in under VWP is unlikely to be refused a visa and anyone who is refused a visa is unlikely to get in using VWP”+ therefore if you think you may be, or in your case have been refused a visa I think you are wasting your time considering the VWP. If I where in your position I would get all you evidence together and apply for a visa (unless you can appeal the original one based on a shorter stay. I didn’t get as far as looking at an appeal process) The process may seem strict but it is in place for good reason, just think far more people are let into America than are turned away. If you had not applied for a visa and just entered under the VWP you may have been OK but now if you try and do it you will have been “Flagged” and if I where the immigration official questioning you I would think +we refused this guy a visa now he is trying to sneak in, there is something wrong here your story sounds perfectly plausible and I’m sure it is true. That is why someone who was intending to overstay would use the same one. How do they know you are telling the truth and the other guy isn’t? Simple they look at the evidence; it isn’t going in your favour this time. It is a big place if you do overstay it is going to be pretty hard to find you so they want to satisfy themselves that you won’t. Get a visa!

Thirdly others have mentioned it but “Entitled” is a very dangerous word. As a UK citizen you are entitled to fill in the VWP form and be considered for entry. They are entitled to turn anyone away they don’t want to let in.

Finally I think it has already been mentioned but the 90 days mentioned in regard to the VWP referrers to North America (including USA, Canada, Mexico and adjacent islands) not just USA.

Good luck I hope it works out for you.

K

bzookaj’s advice appears to be sound. If you don’t want to take it don’t, but it is not worth arguing on these pages.

I agree the advice that is given here on the Visa Waiver Program is generally pretty sound. It is not an area of immigration law that requires any specialized knowledge and because of what it is (foreign visitors entering for pleasure--w/o the right of appeal)most immigration attorneys aren't anymore familar with it than knowledgable non-lawyers. But blanket statements about eligibility for certain catagories of visas or programs or opinions about what type of conduct constitutes an illegal entry or will result in a ten year ban under the Immigration and Naturalization Act should not be just tossed out casually, particularly if they might actually influence what a poster does.

The OP is more at risk of being denied entry under the VWP because his B2 application was denied. But to say he is wasting his time to do it is simply a personal opinion. There are simply too many variables to make that type of statement. I wouldn't do it either, but I have a low tolerance for risk. I think though more likely than not the OP would get in as long as he isn't otherwise ineligible and most importantly has a return ticket to the UK.

The safer course of action is the one that the previous poster suggests. There is no appeal process if a B2 visa application is denied, but as a practical matter a second application with better preparation and more documentation substitutes for an appeal. I am familiar with B2 applications by Mexican nationals and second applications are usually successful if the basis for the original denial was insufficient ties. I cannot imagine that the standards would be more stringent for UK applicants.

Why not start in Brazil and leave to go home from the US. Then you have an out going ticket.

Safest bet? Re-apply for a regular visa (which is not called an extended stay visa; using that term implies something like a long term work or study visa), and this time bringing in more documents showing you can afford this trip and would definitely return to your home country or travel onward rather than trying to stay on illegally in the U.S. (which many people have done). Also show your ticket to Mexico. As stated, you cannot appeal denial of a visa but CAN apply anew (this happens all the time, with success not a rare occasion on a second try in cases where the applicant brings better documentation, etc.). Remember, U.S. immigration law says that all visa applicants must be regarded as intended immigrants and the applicant must prove otherwise (yup, guilty until proven innocent). The fact that you were denied a regular tourist visa may not disqualify you for the VWP, but you are taking a risk. The VWP is aimed at people who present LESS of a risk of overstaying, hence the express route. Your money, your risk. I

Even if flying from Brazil to the U.S. and then home, OP would still need a visa. And they have been refused once. If the only problem were the onward ticket, then they should just go to mexico by plane and show that ticket.