visa waiver and itinerary logistics - can you help, please?

I don't know why you posted this again... but I'll just copy and paste my response from the other post:

If you were refused a visa, you are ineligible for the visa waiver.

When does a national of a VWP country need to apply for a visa instead of using the VWP?
Nationals of VWP countries must meet the conditions noted in the section above (Which travelers may use the Visa Waiver Program to enter the United States?) in order to seek admission to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. Travelers who do not meet these conditions must apply for a visa. In particular, a visa must be requested if the traveler:

Wants to remain in the United States for longer than 90 days, or envisions that they may wish to change their status (from tourism to student, etc.) once in the United States;
Wants to work or study in the United States, wants to come to the United States for other purposes not allowed on a visitor visa, or intends to immigrate to the United States;
Does not have a machine-readable passport (MRP) issued or renewed/extended before 10/26/05, or is unable to meet other requirements outlined above for passports issued on or after October 26, 2005 or October 26, 2006.
Intends to travel by private aircraft or other non-signatory air or sea carriers to the United States;
Has been refused a visa or admission to the United States before, or did not comply with the conditions of previous VWP admissions (90 days or less stay for tourism or business, etc.); or
Has a criminal record or other condition making them ineligible for a visa (see Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas ).

Visa Wiaver Program from the State Department.

It'll be in their computers, so don't think you'll get too far.

If you do try to enter the US, even as a stopping point, they will likely take you aside, question you extensively, then force you to immediately buy a ticket home (i.e. deport you on your dime).

You'll need to fly directly to Mexico, without stopping anywhere in the US (Hawaii is part of the US, which too many people forget), and then travel on to Brazil from there.

Ask a stupid question....

I was under the impression that although I had been refused a tourist visa for an extended stay beyond the 90 days visa waiver period, I am still entitled to enter the country on a 90 day visa waiver, subject to further scrutiny. I got that info from the us embassy site.

Are you seriously telling me that once you have been declined a visa, you are never able to enter the US?!

To put it simply, I wish to enter the US and it's surrounding countries for less than 90 days before moving on. I have never been denied entry to the US before. I only previously applied for a visa in case I wished to stay beyond 90 days, which is now not possible. I was refused the extended visa because I did not show strong enough ties to make me return to the UK, this is because I intend to continue travelling rather than return home.

+I was refused a visa for an extended stay+

How long did you originally wished to stay for? Was it refused on absolute grounds, or the length of time requested? Would your crimes or other deficiencies (in American eyes) be sufficiently minor - or able to be amended - to allow a potentially successful application for a tourist visa for a shorter time?

Added: I think you are being advised that if you are refused a visa you cannot then enter under the VWP - not necessarily barred for all time (if you can fix the issues that led to the initial refusal, presumably).

I originally applied for a 6 month visa. The only reason stated was that I could not prove I was definitely going to leave the US. I am resigning from my job to go travelling, so I have no work connections and I had no return ticket or forwarding ticket out of the US - obviously, I did not purchase anything, as I did not know if I would be able to stay beyond the 90 days.

according to the embassy site:
While travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not ineligible to travel visa under the Visa Waiver Program, they will be questioned by an immigration official at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

The traveler should carry with him or her evidence of his or her intention to depart the United States at the end of the visit. This is generally satisfied by furnishing evidence of strong social and economic ties to the traveler's 's place of permanent residence. There is no set form that this should take as each person's circumstances differ.

If the immigration officer is not satisfied that the traveler meets the qualifications for nonimmigrant status, the traveler will be denied entry.

I appreciate that there is a risk I may be turned away, so I'd like to know how best to mitigate that risk.

I appreciate that there is a risk I may be turned away, so I'd like to know how best to mitigate that risk.

For one thing you could try to comply with the requirements of the VWP. I would recommend an outbound ticket from a city in the US that shows you will leave the country for some place other than Canada, Mexico or an adjacent island within 90 days of your arrival. The Visa Waiver is for a visit to the US, not a combined trip to the US and Mexico.

I would suggest flying from the US to Guatemala. You could then work your way back from there to Mexico City for your flight to Brazil.

yes, I intend to show a full itinerary and proof of ticket purchase for when I will be leaving the US to go to Mexico and also when I will leave Mexico to enter Brazil.

I'm really worried that I may still get turned away on my very first stop. I just hope I have an honest face! Seriously, though. Other than show all of my travel arrangements, I'm not sure what else I can do.

Has anybody any other suggestions? I already have my flight to NY booked, so my itinerary can't be tinkered with too much.

I guess I should come up with a plan B. If, god forbid, I do get turned away at NY, could I opt for a flight to Mexico instead or must I return from whence I came?

Ah, having re-read your reply. It looks like I should plan to go from the US to Brazil within my 90 days stay and then enter Mexico from Brazil?

Does that make more sense?

I am still entitled to enter the country on a 90 day visa

You are NEVER "entitled" to enter a foreign country. "Entitled" means they cannot deny you. In reality, you can easily be denied entry, and if you try your plan, you will be.

Are you seriously telling me that once you have been declined a visa, you are never able to enter the US?!

Not under the visa waiver. You are welcome to apply for visas in the future.

Being denied a visa because they think you'll overstay is a very bad sign. The immigration officials are even more suspicious of visa waiver applicants about this, hence the enhanced requirements (such as requiring an outbound ticket). If they find out why you were denied a visa (and they will), you might actually be banned from the US for up to 10 years for attempting to enter illegally, as well as immediately deported. Remember, there is no transit in US airports, so being banned from the US means you may not take any flight that connects through the US.

I'm sorry this messes up your travel plans, but that's the way it is.

Btw, a ticket from Mexico to Brazil within 90 days does count, but it's moot since you are not eligilbe for the visa waiver.

Ask a stupid question....

It looks like I should plan to go from the US to Brazil within my 90 days stay and then enter Mexico from Brazil?. . . . . Does that make more sense?

Most definately. But even under that scenario entering under VWP is not a slam dunk. You have been denied a visa after an interview with a consular officer and that is going to take some explaining at the front line.

However, since a visa is valid for a minimum of 5 years the overstay factor and ties to the homeland probably is weighed more heavily than in the case of someone trying to enter under VWP with an outbound ticket for a timely departure. VWP is essentially a one-shot 90 day deal. But a recent visa denial is not a plus.