ISO scenic U.S. train trip in March

Where in the world, are roads and airport gates not subsidized?

I guess all food and water is too, if you drill it down far enough....

LOL

Where in the world, are roads and airport gates not subsidized?

I guess all food and water is too, if you drill it down far enough....

LOL

That's exactly what I said. You're the one who said "I think you mis-stated some facts. #7-The car, bus and plane industry is not subsidized by the govt, they may have had some bail outs or support in tough times, but the majority are publicly traded companies that are not subsidized."

I didn't misstate facts, you said cars, buses, and planes aren't subsidized. They are, just not as much as Amtrak, except city buses and urban mass transit rail, which are far more subsidized than anything else in the US.

Have actually done the Zephyr which is very worthwhile and have returned from the Pacific NW via Denver--also worthwile. The train ride from LA to SF is worthwhile-, although last third is boring. The transcontinental trains are timed to maximize scenery and even with delays, you will get to enjoy that.

If you want a train trip, take a train trip. The roomettes are small and that's a problem for some people, but otherwise, I don't have warnings for you.

No the US train system can't compare with the best foreign systems but the conditions of the rolling stock, etc. are fine. You will face delays, but no one who takes a train these days is expecting to meet a tight schedule. You will meet people from all walks of lifes, which you won't do any other way of traveling.

Think of US trains as a cruise boat on wheels. On a cruise you are not narrowly focused on getting from A to B, but rather on a relaxing and informative experience. If you want to get someplace quickly, cheaply, or on time there are other alternatives, and the train is usually not one of them.

As for the passenger rail system vs the Interstate/Roads/private vehicle, this was all due to the US never having a Energy Policy, that was aimed at reducing vehicles and transport as whole, for the last 80 years.

Indeed it was the reverse - and in fact the US has spent trillions running a private police force and protection agency for its oil industry worldwide. It's called the Department of Defence and the CIA. Has worked well, most of the time.

The suburban / exurban lifestyle is already being hollowed out - economically, socially, and spiritually. Who knows where it will go when cheap energy is no more ... I can't see it ending well.

I don't know whether any European rail systems make enough to pay for services provided, but it is a very impressive system in most places, and if significant public funds are required to support it - seems to me a pretty good use of tax.

in fact the US has spent trillions running a private police force and protection agency for its oil industry worldwide. It's called the Department of Defence and the CIA. Has worked well, most of the time.

That is absurd to tie the lack of a good energy policy, and public transit, to the CIA and the oil industry. Yes the US Govt protects it industrial interest, and its dependence on foreign imported fuels, but it has nothing to do with the Interstate system vs the passenger rail system.

EU was never dependent on nor embraced the automobile culture, for a multitude of reasons, one being many of the major cities there could not accommodate new major highways and wide roads, as they were centuries old urban sprawl, small streets, where as the US was a open field and a easy landscape to build roads, and suburbia as we know it. Land was much cheaper for the average citizen to buy than the EU, not to mention a much easier to attain debt market to supply cheap money to lend people money to purchase land and homes, cars etc...

Having lived in both major urban cities and suburbs, when I was younger I enjoyed the city, now I am older and shun the city, its dirty, has safety issues, higher crime, more expensive property in many major cities, poorer school/education systems, and parking/gridlock finding parking about is a pain in the arse.

Cities experiencing rebirth of its urban living, are not the same demographics as when they were first popular, as it tends to be singles and empty nesters, they dont have to own a car, and can be dependent on ride share, bicycles or public transport. They tend to work from home or communal office campus/buildings, and dont have a need for great schools and good shopping, as they shop online and everything is delivered. Nightlife or a good bar is higher on the must have list than a good school...

Much of the expansion of growing populations and home growth in the south, is people fleeing the norths old cities. Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Ft Lauderdale, Nashville, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver etc, people are moving to these areas for 3 reasons, better schools, better quality of life/lifestyle/weather, lower property taxes or better services/govt for the same amount of money, or even less. People want space and sprawl. Can you blame them?

China/Asia its all high rises due to cost factors. You can buy a 2B/2B in a new building in most areas outside the top major cities for $50K. Though their wages/earnings are 1/4th of the USA, the middle class attains property/condos no problem, and that cash, no mortgage. The cities are planned with public transport/infrastructure in place, unlike the USA. Now that the Chinese can afford a vehicle, their roads are very congested, and they are trying to deter car ownership in the major cities. 4 lane highways are parking lots just like the USA.

Why does a simple question about a scenic train trip. become a tit for tat battle about transport around the world. surely there is some other forum for this type of talk. Not the first time I have noticed a simple topic has been hijacked.

Because passenger train travel in the USA is not what people think it is, and I wanted the poster to know what Amtrak is, or isn't. Simple.

Why does a simple question about a scenic train trip. become a tit for tat battle about transport around the world. surely there is some other forum for this type of talk.

Someone stated that the Amtrak railway system is subsidised by the US taxpayer, with the implication that other transport is not ... but clearly air, bus, and especially cars are hugely supported by taxpayers. Just perhaps not quite so visibly.

So I thought it was worthwhile pointing this out. If it weren't about the securing of oil supply, the US would barely need an army, let alone a standing one in about 80 or so countries. Why otherwise would they care about Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, or indeed Saudi Arabia?

The cost of empire I guess ... as the Romans found to their great cost, ultimately. And not an uninteresting subject to chew over.

Afghanistan is not a energy producer and in OPEC.

Venezuela was a producer, but privatized its oil industry and now is a non player, we didnt invade Venezuela.

If you think the US does not need a military and is only for protecting oil interest, you are living in a another dimension. The USA is now actually exporting oil, so I guess we should sell the Navy Fleet and pout the fighter jets in mothballs...lol

Back to why Amtrak Sucks.

https://mythreecents.com/reviews/amtrak

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/amtrak.html