What can we gain by skipping Yosemite and flying to SanFran?

Background: one night in Vegas booked, hiring a car to drive to Grand Canyon where we have two nights (April 21 and 22) in Tusayan booked. We need to be in San Francisco for the 26th, so we have three nights. We were planning on visiting Yosemite, but we're now thinking (following some very useful advice on the TT in the last 24 hours) that our time might be more efficiently used if we stick around Arizona for five nights instead of two and just drive back to Vegas on the 26th, flying to SF from there.

So....
Question 1. After having spent a day and two nights at GC National Park, where should we head to next?

Question 2. What are the "must sees" within easy driving distance that won't take us too far from Vegas?

Question 3. Should we look at basing ourselves in Flagstaff for three nights or is there somewhere better?

(As before: I'm 30 and my gf is 27, both quite fit and active, although not what you'd call experienced hikers. )

Hopefully responses to this will allow us to make our final plan and we will bother you no more! (I also intend to repay the Thorn Tree by helping out folks on my own "home" branches...)

1. Sedona, AZ and maybe Canyon de Chelly, AZ. Or go to Utah by way of the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and Zion and Bryce national parks.
   
   2. Hoover Dam is on your way from Vegas to the South Rim. West of Vegas (3-1/2 hours) is Death Valley, a "must-see."
   
   3. If you're going to stay in AZ, I'd base yourselves in Sedona. But frankly, I think you'd be better off to do the Utah option I mention in #1 and on the FAQ posting I made as the result of your earlier query.
   
   Do us another favor. After you've made your trip, post and tell us how it went. The more detail the better. Doesn't have to be all sweetness and light, either. If there were bad things or stuff you didn't like, that's just as valuable as anything else. Not enough people ever report back here about their trip. Have a great one, and trust me you are going to visit all kinds of great stuff. I think the idea of flying to S.F. from Vegas is a good one, by the way. It's not a game of tag; you can't see every single thing, and you can't worry about what you didn't see. As long as you made sure to see the Grand Canyon, that is. Prepare to be blown away by that one. No picture can ever capture it.

p.s.: Death Valley is an easy day trip from Vegas, but it would be better if you could drive over there late in the day, spend the night there, spend the next morning walking around, take a drive up to Scotty's castle, then head back to Vegas.

I would see the GC then make a loop and see Bryce and Zion (Zion is only 2.5 hours from Las Vegas, so it will be easy to get back). I think it's a reasonable amount of driving and these two parks are amazing destinations. Also, in Zion at least, the weather should be nice but the crowds will still be small. I don't think Death Valley is a must see-it's the only national park I've been to where I have no interest in going again.

If you'd rather stay in AZ base yourself in Sedona rather than Flagstaff (nothing against Flagstaff, it's a nice town, but Sedona is prettier).

If you are skipping Yosemite in part to avoid rushing, why rush your stay at the GC, especially if you want to hike? Can you extend your stay at Tusayan? There are other parts of the GC, west of the main park, that are apparently interesting. Other posters can opine. Painted Desert and Petrified Forest are nearby. If you want to see some extra scenery, you could drive east and north into Utah, and drive through Zion National Park to get back to Las Vegas. Too early in the year to go to the North Rim of hte Grand Canyon (not sure if Bryce would be open and, if it is, if you would have time), but Zion is great, with lots of choices for hiking.

With 3 extra days in the region, you could pretty easily follow Willy's suggestion Grand Canyon>Bryce Canyon (yes its open in April)>Zion>back to Vegas. I don't think you'd have time to squeeze in Canyon De Chelly, especially since the whole idea of changing your plans was to not be so hectic. I'm sure Willy recommended the drive past the North Rim not because he thinks its open in April (its not), but because the drive by the Vermillion Cliffs is so incredibly cool (it is).

Alternatively, there is more than enough sights to be seen and activities to be had around Flagstaff and Sedona to fill a couple days. Easily. Sedona is very beautiful, but as a place to stay its also quite expensive, and the town itself veers dangerously close to tacky tourist developement (some would say it doesn't veer close to tacky, its all about tacky). No matter, the surrounding countryside overwhelms all that. Flagstaff is more of a "regular" town, the immediate scenery is less spectacular (still pretty); its a cheaper but generally less luxurious place to stay. Springtime will be well underway in Sedona, but still a few weeks away in Flagstaff. Flagstaff makes a slightly more convenient base for varied excursions around the region; in Sedona you can bathe yourself in resort luxury surrounded by red-rock cliffs. There's dozens of great hiking trails through canyons, streams and mountains around Sedona and Flagstaff, several lesser-known but very interesting National Monuments, jeep tours, horse tours, a nice natural history/anthropology museum, pretty good restaurants...plenty to do.

I think you'd be happy with either option. If you will be taking the Sedona/Flagstaff option feel free to drop me a PM and I can recommend trails to hike or good places to eat around there. Either way, do let us know how it all turned out.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>I'm sure Willy recommended the drive past the North Rim not because he thinks its open in April (its not), but because the drive by the Vermillion Cliffs is so incredibly cool (it is). <hr></blockquote>
Correct.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Sedona is very beautiful, but as a place to stay its also quite expensive, and the town itself veers dangerously close to tacky tourist developement (some would say it doesn't veer close to tacky, its all about tacky). <hr></blockquote>
My favorite aspect is the wacky New Age "vortex" stuff. The New Agers would be horrified to think that they've become a tacky cliche no different in spirit from, say, Wall Drug or the Corn Palace, but it's true. Yeah, Sedona's on the pricey side but the scenery really is good. To save some bucks, if the OP wanted to do the Arizona thing they could stay in Flagstaff and do a day trip down to Sedona (very easy).

I really second the option of looping past Glen Canyon Dam, Vermillion Cliffs, Bryce Canyon NP and Zion NP, and then return to Las Vegas (dropping in to see Valley of Fire SP on the way back). If you experience Zion NP then the loss of Yosemite is assuaged - it is very beautiful, as is Bryce Canyon NP, and there are some short hikes in both that are really rewarding and not very difficult. Highly recommended, and you have the time if you don't dawdle.<BR><BR>The drive from Flagstaff to Sedona via the Oak Creek Canyon is beautiful, but Sedona is tacky central indeed, notwithstanding the alleged aura, and the sprawl of suburban development is a planning nightmare. The red rock country is nice of course, but in my opinion the SW Utah itinerary is far superior. My two cents worth.

GC tour driver here. If you are reasonably fit, take a hike, but don't overdo it. You will have an experience to remember. I just hiked last weekend down to Phanton Ranch and stayed overnight, and while I hike slowly, I had a great time - legs rather sore, but glad to see the body, at 56, can handle it. DOn't rush your stay here - you will not be disappointed by GC.

The GC is sensational, but if you only have five nights in total, two there is about the maximum you need allow - a full day including a sunrise and sunset.

In general I agree with #7... Zion is more dramatic than Sedona for sure. But I do think the Sedona area is underrated by many people on TT, mainly because the town itself is a bit of an affront. The drive there is spectacular, and the easy walk up the West Fork of Oak Creek almost compares with Zion for scenic beauty (almost!). And there's so many great areas away from all the new-age tourist nonsense and vacation-home sprawl.

So if you are collecting "see-before-you-die" places on this trip, Zion and Bryce are the way to go. But if the part of your trip between GC and San Fran is more about slowing down and relaxing a bit while still taking in some great scenery, you can't go wrong spending a few days around Sedona and Flagstaff.

Sedona's not a bag town. I've seen plenty a whole lot worse.

I meant "not a bad town." It's funny how you get the fashionistas decrying expansion of towns like that while in the same breath complaining about high prices in said places. Children, if you restrict the supply through development restrictions, want to guess what happens to the price?

That's why the locals want to put up boom gates Willy - so their little pile of concrete, crystals and aircon skyrockets in value. But even if you're pro-development, the sprawl around Sedona is getting close to tragic (given the natural beauty of the place...).

Hi. I live in Las Vegas.

I'm wonderfully encouraged to see the terrific advice given: visit Southern Utah. That's a wonderful time of year to see Zion and Bryce, and there are terrific hikes in both parks for less-experienced hikers. I might add that I've trekked and climbed in just about every major and minor range in the Americas (N and S), and for my money, Springdale UT is one of the most pleasant towns in which one can kill time short of the Argentine Patagonian Andes.

As a climber, I know the magic that is Yosemite, but agree that it would really make your trip more of a driving trip than simply keeping closer to Vegas.

And now, let me make a local pitch: Las Vegas is actually a wonderful place, and you may find yourself wanting to spend more time here. It's far less expensive than most US destinations in terms of cost/quality (for example, rooms in most of the larger casinos can be had for $70/night, and go as low as $25 for the Orleans, which is actually not a bad place).

Better still, go to Red Rock Canyon and/or Death Valley. Ride some of the rollercoasters on the Strip. Get drunk by the pool at the Mandalay Bay (or the Aladdin). Visit some of the remarkable restaurants away from the Strip. And if you want a large mountain, drive up to Mt. Charleston. They have a beautiful campground there that is almost always less than full.

And if you absolutely MUST see the Sierra Nevada, you have some great choices:
fly earlier to SF, and drive from there (a lot quicker); or
drive to Bishop from Death Valley (another 2.5 hours on), and enjoy the beauty from the eastern slope.

The southwest has an embarassment of riches in terms of fun things, and if you are committed to the Grand Canyon and SF, Yosemite might stretch your schedule a bit thin.

Note:
- I do not vote for the Hoover Dam as a stop on a tour. IMHO underwhelming, and huge amounts of traffic. If your drive to the GC takes you this way, don't plan to cross at noon on a Saturday. YIKES.
- Sedona is lovely, and expensive. Warnings about budget-busting there should be taken seriously.

I liked Hoover Dam. Drive across to the Arizona side and park for free and walk back - it's quite impressive, given you have to drive over it anyway. And I know Lake Powell is politically incorrect, but Glen Canyon Dam is impressive too. These things are not dime a dozen, and should be appreciated. I agree with you though #14 on Red Rock Canyon and Death Valley.

Thank you so much to everyone who replied - all of this advice is great.

Opinion seems to be converging on a circuit taking in Bryce and Zion NPs - I think that's probably the option we'll go for.

Thanks also for the advice on Hoover Dam. I've actually seen it before myself and was slightly underwhelmed by it. But it's definitely worth a look and we'll try to swing by it (taking account of the "avoid Saturday at noon" advice from Danhedonia.

We'll let you know how we get on on our return...

The advice we give from Grand Canyon ( South Rim ) is that if travelling GC to Las Vegas at a busy time, DO NOT travel via Hoover Dam, unless you have a burnig desire to see it. There are security checkpoints, bottlenecks, and construction. Look at the highway map and take the highway ( AZ 68, I believe ) from just north of Kingman over to Bullhead City and cross the river to Laughlin, and then continue over to U.S. 95 north which will take you to Henderson, east of Las Vegas. ABout 20 more driving miles and a whole lot les headache. SOme visitors told me just in the past few days about major delays they encountered last week at Hoover Dam.

I took the Hoover Dan route about a year ago, and it took an extra hour because of security and construction. Having seen it before it's not something I welcomed, but if it's a first-time trip I'd say bite the bullet and go there anyway.

I agree with Willy about Hoover dam. The dam is a relic from a time when massive engineering projects were undertaken with style and verve. Its not only impressive, its beautiful. I guess I have to cash in my Sierra Club membership for saying so, but there it is. BTW, I think Glen Canyon dam is less impressive and not nearly as architecturally interesting - you'd be better off driving by the Vermillion Cliffs than Glen Canyon on your way up to Utah.

<blockquote>Quote<br><hr>The dam is a relic from a time when massive engineering projects were undertaken with style and verve<hr></blockquote>The detail is very beautiful - right down to the door handles - Art Deco on steroids indeed. They do not build 'em like that anymore ... Glen Canyon a poor cousing indeed, but still worthwhile I reckon, on your way through.