<blockquote>Quote
<hr>For every $1155 dollars you give to Duales, you receive $1000CUC. This means that you "lose" (in fees and difference in currency valuation betwen USD and CUC) approx. 13.42% of your money in the conversion. <hr></blockquote> twodoms, you have misunderstood the problem, and calculated incorrectly. A few examples will illustrate this mistake:
1) Aussie Jim & his wife just ate a USD$100. meal in NYC. They will leave a 15% tip, how much more is that? a) USD$15. (15/ 100) or b) USD$17.65 (17.65/117.65)?
2) Austrian Jana bought sunglasses in Pergano for €100., on the receipt: a VAT (tax) of €15. was added. Is that VAT a) 15% (15/100) or b) 13.04% (15/115)?
3) American Joe sends USD$1000. to Cuba, at a declared rate of $USD 1.=$CUC 1.; the transtion fee costs him an extra USD$155. Is that cost a) 15.5% or b) 13.42%?
The Remittance (1000) PLUS the Fee (155) = the Duales Total[(1155). The FEE (B) is determined by the REMITTANCE (A), not the TOTAL (AB). B is divided by A, not (AB). btw, no one ever argued that 155 is not 13.42% of 1155. But that still the incorrect way to calculate FEE COST, and it does understate as disinformation.
To put it another way:
From Duales' stated rate of $USD 1.=$CUC 1. and the OP's "final exchange rate of 1.155 US dollars per CUC," can't you see the difference is 15.5 cents on the Dollar? That's your transaction cost, tacked on. Likewise, if it costs someone 19 kooks to send 100 kooks, the transaction cost is 19%. There's no good reason to underestimate or misstate that, wishful thinking aside.
Duales is ALSO unnecessary for travelers needing a "backup" as fabbrisd mentions, because AMEX TC are reportedly cashed at favorable rate at major banks. Americans can also buy Thomas Cook TC in Canada & outside the USA. The concerned OP should consider fees: Best Option #2?
Unlike the Dud Card ("Use it or lose it!"), those TC function & have value outside Cuba. Why waste your money, with a Dud Card?
I've actually researched the alternatives here, too; there are certainly MORE than two remittance card options, but if maybe 3% of US-Cuba travelers use them, I'll accept that those are the two "most popular." Of dozens of travelers, I have never met an American who used a Duales Card for his travel finances: everyone carried CASH.
At the outset, I'll admit that the Duales Card appears to be the most cost-effective way to remit SMALL amounts to Cuba, if Western Union or Moneygram isnt an option. (But the OP isnt about remittance, $19-23. per USD100. sent, and that's not even an issue for normal travelers: that's another topic.)
For someone tied to US banks/credit cards, your vacation must be long & costly enough to warrant serious consideration of any non-cash option. Someone wont be traveling for weeks on a $1,000. Duales Card: if you are THAT frugal, you are NOT paying Duales fees! For three weeks, Cuba expenses can easily run $2000. So the idea of a $CUC 1,000. budget is unrealistic, pointless, an academic excercise. We will do it, simply because CUC 1,000. or USD 1,000. is a coherent round number that people understand. The numbers are from a) other travelers' prior posts on TT or b) what the confirmed alternatives post on their websites.
CASH:
Cash is King! (unless your bank gives an especially crummy exchange rate) Check the cost of buying Euros or Cdn, altahabana's bank quoted a TERRIBLE exchange rate, nearly as bad as converting USD in Cuba.
USD 1000. > EUR 694. > CUC 826. (?Altahabana's quoted bank rate, 3/30/07)
USD 1000. > EUR 734. > CUC 893. (smeb's quoted bank rate, 5/15/07)
USD 1000. > EUR 724. > CUC 881. (BHD quoted rate, 5/17/07)
USD 1000. > CUC 808. (?Altahabana's quoted bank rate, 3/30/07)
Duales is more expensive than Abbott or BHD, but better than straight USD>CUC. (Check what your US bank sells Euros for, relative to the market.) Duales is more expensive with a credit card; I did NOT factor that but did add Money Order/postage to get:
USD 1000 - (FEE USD 155+ $5 M.O.) = CUC 840.
International DEBIT CARD: any number of non-US e-money and offshore banks offer these debit cards. If you look further, you may find better deals: I listed about 10 others elsewhere. Here are two cards, for example, which declare functionality in Cuba AND elsewhere. Check Terms & Conditions. Fees include purchasing the card, and all regular transaction costs, nothing missing.
EPAY Intl Mastercard DEBIT ($USD) charges USD 2.50 each ATM & 1.20 POS (5/18/07)
First: USD 1000. - (USD 89. card) = USD 911. – (2.5% load fee +$3 = USD 26.) = USD 885. > (-11% conversion & 4 withdrawal charges) = CUC 777.
and
Thereafter: USD 1000. – (2.5% load fee +$3 = USD 28.) = USD 972. > (-11% conversion & 4 withdrawal charges) = CUC 855.
Offshore (Balt.) VISA debit Card (1.5% cash withdrawal fee, min $3.)
First:
USD 1000. – USD 100. (Open Current Account, Annual Card fee) = USD 900. - (ATM fees,USD 15.) = USD 885. - (11% conversion) > CUC 783.
then
Thereafter: USD 1000. – (ATM fees,USD 15.) = USD 985. > (-11% conversion) = CUC 876.
Remittance: For those who can, sending money to a trusted Friend's Cuban Bank Acct. is an alternative that can save money, too.
FriendlyPay: (5/18/07)
USD 1000. > Cdn 1098. - (1% withdrawal intl wire fee= USD 36.) = Cdn 1062. - (CUC 12 intl wire fee) = CUC 855.
Canadian Bank Wire would presumably cost the same.
Summary: All methods COST, some more than others. The full costs of the Debit Cards is included, but they work elsewhere/worldwide, unlike Duales. My alternatives are by no means exhaustive, a complete list, I believe there are more options that prudent remitters should look for. Travelers can see that for Cuba or anywhere, fees can add up and transaction costs are unavoidable. With a budget of $4k, I would prefer to have a card that I could use elsewhere, as I always have a few hundred left over.
The alternatives to Duales could save you the equivalent of 8 nights in a casa particular, in this case. Best of luck!
If sending USD 4,000. with Duales you gets CUC 3375, you
LOSE CUC 150.- 200. more vs. CASH USD>Euro>CUC. (USD 4000 > CUC 3524 5/17 BHD rates)
LOSE CUC ?? more vs. AMEX or Thomas Cook TC
LOSE CUC 50.-150. more vs. FriendlyPay or Canadian Bank Wire. (remittance, for comparison only)
SAVE CUC 7. more vs. Offshore VISA Debit Card.
SAVE CUC 55. more vs. EPAY's (Euro) Mastercard Debit Card
ROFLMAO.
Reminds me of one of my favorite cartoons. A middle-aged couple are in what is clearly their living room. The husband is standing at the pictoure window that looks out onto a busy street and has opened his bathrobe to fully reveal himself to passersby. His wife, quietly knitting in a nearby rocker gently asks............"haven't you ever wondered why no one seems to notice, E_A?"
Thanks to all who contributed; E_Armand, I will look into those other options you posted, many thanks.
Please understand that having the equivalent of USD$1000's in cash to/during your Cuban trip is quite normal.
You can use a US credit card for Rex car rentals, carry a emergency backup-to-your backup in Amex travelers checks (but you MUST bring your original receipt with you), but the rest of your normal daily expenses will be cash-cash...
The only other place I have used a valid Cuban accepted debit card is at the Supermercado stocking up for a pool house weekend blowout.
If it's your first trip - a couple of comments:
- consider booking a reasonable hotel for your arrival night. Most intl flights arrive at night (why fumble around in the dark?), there is a "thrill" for your 1st Cuba trip especially for a unlicensed US traveller and best to have a specifc destination where you can bunk, get a safety deposit box if you want, shower up, and most importantly take some time to chill down and get your head straight. You can look for a casa the 1st full day easily using the refferals from here and elsewhere.
I have seen a lot of 1st time visitors to Cuba actually short-change the enjoyment and value of their trip by starting off on the wrong foot from arrivial night thru their entire visit by following thru unnecessarily on their travel buzz from their arrival experience. Your enjoyment for your trip is much enhanced if a 1st time traveler chills a bit, takes it easy, and lets the travel buzz-head clear up first.
- cash is easy to get, and like most 3rd world countries the challenge is in "cash budget management" and "cash security"... on cash budget management, always remember you will need CUC $25 for the airport departure tax when you leave, and take as much cash as you can reasonably afford - assuming you are going to have a unexpected time of your life... on cash security, its up to you to handle, the rules here are to onlu use hotels or licensed casa's, unlicensed casa's is where you stand a good chance of getting ripped... I have lockable roller bag, and locking my cash inside the bag, at a registered casa, I have never been ripped off... I carry what I need for that particular day or night, the rest stays in the locked roller bag at my licensed casa...
Have a great trip !
Excellent misleading and/or misinformed post E-armand. Just one small point:
As you said, Duales gives you 1CUC for 1USD. From XE.com, the current conversion is 1 USD= .9259CUC. By calculating your way, you don't acknowledge the fact that 1CUC is worth more than 1USD, and yet with Duales you get a 1 to 1 exchange rate!
Your calc: "USD 1000 - (FEE USD 155+ $5 M.O.) = CUC 840." But you aren't given 840 CUC, you are given 1000 CUC on the card!
Once someone addresses the flaws in your logic (see above posts re: a canadian being robbed vs. an american being robbed, and "People who can manage their finances have no worries"), you then don't respond to the correction and instead go back to the same misunderstood tip percentage calculation. Bizarre.
After reading more of your posts from the past, it doesn't seem likely that you'll grasp this, so I won't waste my breath as pelodorado has. It should be obvious to all with basic math skills to understand.
One thing that is quite poor about Duales is that their website is absolutely putrid. Anyone know about my question regarding whether Duales offers protection from theft or loss of the card? Also, with Transcard, you can get unused money refunded for a $10 service fee. Is there something similar for Duales?
I agree, Fab. Cash is King in Cuba and I never have used any card for purchases except, as you said, on special occasions. Once at Supermercado Palco and once at La Puntilla, both times for rather large purchases.
OTOH, I NEVER carry more than $300 Cash on me at any time other than the DAY I am going to buy something like a refrigerator or a TV. On that day I withdraw the funds from the most convenient bank or hotel and have it at risk for only the length of time it takes me to get from the bank to the Store.
I figure that I could possibly get about $88CUC for every $100USD if I were willing to spend some time and do the double exchange but then I would be left with a mound of money that would color my whole trip with worry and uncertainty. Instead I accept the $86.6CUC for my $100USD that Duales provides and I never have to sweat losing more than a couple of hundred bucks.
I can run with the wrong crowd and sleep with unsavory women in an questionable Casa if I want to. The most that anyone could ever rip me off for is a couple of hundred dollars. I can live with the cost of that lesson. I couldn't walk away so clean from losing everything I had for whatever reason that might occur.
I just think it odd that people who would never consider hording $5-10,000 in their own home in their own country would conceive of that as a good idea whilst in a place like Cuba, especially when there are other options available.
Our posts crossed paths there, twodomes.
My understanding is that if your card is lost or stolen you can go to the Duales office in Miramar and get funds directly from there until your card is replaced. I couch it in those terms because I have not personally ever had that occur and so I cannot speak to it from personal experience.
As far as "unused money" goes it is a non-issue for me with Duales. I find out what I have left in my account the day before I leave and I withdraw it all. I keep what I need in CUC to get out of the country and what I want to leave with my friends and then I convert whatever is left to USD. My Duales account is emptied whenever I leave Cuba. That nominal CUC-USD conversion certainly carries with it the whole 10% hit re USD but then it's usually a 10% hit on just a few hundred dollars.
I didn't respond to another question about the Amigo card as compared to the Duales card. I have used both. The Amigo card was a nightmare to use and a whole other nightmare to figure out what the actual costs were in using the card. When I tried to use the Amigo card I was cut off from ALL my money for six days during Hurricane Wilma and it took me three separate trips to, and hours of waiting in, their obscure little office under the Havana Libre to finally get access to my funds again. If I didn't have friends that knew the workers in that office I might never have seen my money again. Thanks Ahmed. On more than one occasion I was refused cash at the Hotel Riviera because the Amigo Card people said I had no funds in the account when in fact I had several thousand. The short answer is that there is no comparison.
Thanks twodomes for pointing out the major flaw in the great persentages debate. As I have noted in the past the fact that with Dulles you actually get 100CUC's in hand for every $119USD paid means that the 'difference ' between these 2 figures also includes the 'normal' exchange differential bewteen CUC's and USD. To build this in as a 'charge' is misleading. I had thought this flash of intelligence on your part was because you were a fellow kangaroo as this is what your bio says but then saw on an earlier thread you confess to being a yank.
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