Ditto- thanks mattarms for confirming that a visa debit works. I noticed only a couple of days ago a posting that said that was not possible. Given that I know that an OZ visa debit works I did wonder why the difference. Similarly my own experiences were that a card was just as cheap as cash (except for whatever charges the home banking institution adds on - mid you some charge a lotmore than you are quoting). As Terry says the myth about cards(for non-US citizens) and cash lives on despite all the information to the contrary. So does the 11% difference between the value of 1CUC and 1USD as if this is ALL some sort of charge rather the exchange rate. The fact that one 1AUD currently only gives me 0.85USD does not make this a 15% charge.
Cheers
john
Its even better than that, John. Thanks to mattarms, we know exactly what it costs to take out CUC 1,000. with a VISA debit card (in five withdrawls, 200 CUC each): CUC 1000. = USD 1087. I have been suggesting VISA debit cards as one cheaper alternative, no one reasonable will argue with that now.
CUC 1000 x USD rate 1.08 = USD 1080 (+ 5 x 1.30 service fee= 6.5 fees) = USD 1087.
A Brit or Euro would be BURNING their money (USD $68., to be precise) opening an account with an unmentioned, pricey Canadian remitter as someone has recently recommended - poor advice, waste of money, caveat emptor!
Case in point, CUC 1,000 debit for USD $1155. is a ripoff.
Thanks for this brilliant post. We're planning a trip to Cuba this summer, and you've preempted lots of my questions. Thanks!
E A - this is just a hunch but I suspect the service fee that mattarm(Matt - can you tell us??) refers to is actually a percentage rather than a flat rate. If so then it is 3%(i.e. 1.3 over 43.2 which I am sure hit you immediately as a fellow numbers man to be very neatly 3.009259259%?). IF my hunch is correct then 1000 CUC = 1080 USD (plus 32.4 foreign exchange fee) = 1112.4 USD. But whatever result is correct both numbers are better than $1155.
However whatever the bottom line is - the issue for a US citizen is surely that a 'normal' visa card such as an Oz or Pommie visa card is out of their reach? But maybe as is often my wont I am missing something here.
Cheers
john
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<hr>E A - this is just a hunch but I suspect the service fee that mattarm(Matt - can you tell us??) refers to is actually a percentage rather than a flat rate.<hr></blockquote>
I don't know: I only used the ATM once. But my hunch too was that the 1.30 USD fee was a percentage, rather than a fixed fee: this is where that figure of 11% comes from (8% is the conversion to USD and 3% is the ATM fee applied by the Cuban bank--although as I have already said, I think it's misleading and confusing to talk about the 8% part of the charge, because it comes from the 1 CUC = 1.08 USD conversion, which is factored into every exchange transaction; it's not really a charge, it's just what the CUC is worth).
Also, the point about what YOUR bank charges you is worth noting. I have the Nationwide Debit Card specifically because I travel a lot and it is a good deal because they don't charge any cash machine fees or a "loading" on the exchange. I also have a debit card through HSBC, but they charge something like £1.75 fee if I use a foreign ATM, and they quietly hit you with 2.75% on the exchange rate (you don't even see this as it is already included in the rate shown on your statement). That would tip the calculation in favour of cash.
But my motive in posting this information was that we can all find out what OUR bank is going to charge us: the uncertainty for me before going was what the Cuban bank would charge. (And when I phoned my bank to try to find out, they didn't have a clue). Hopefully this information sheds some light on how it appears to work.
But caveat emptor / your mileage may vary...
Matt
Thanks Matt for the quick response - the crucial point you reiterate here is that the 1.08 exchange rate is simply that - an exchange rate(whether it is a a good or bad rate is a much longer discussion). Like you I specifically use a visa debit card - this also has a flat rate so irrespective of the withdrawal the add on is the same. As you point out so many banking institutions also make extra charges for using ATM's which are not theirs.
Caveat emptor indeed!
Cheers
john
Terrific post, Matt. Very informative and entertaining as well. I'm feeling smarter just having read it.
BTW, E_A, no one is suggesting that Duales is the best deal for other than US citizens. Everyone else in the world has other options. US citizens do not despite your many vociferous and unsubstantiated proclamations that suggest otherwise. I know of several Canadians and others, however, that DO use Duales simply because it works so well and, as John has pointed out, the difference in rates is negligible if it's on an occasional basis for small amounts.
American dont have any other options or alternatives to Duales (aka the Dud Card)? That's a lie.
US citizens and others interested in getting a Euro-denominated Visa debit card that works in Cuba can start HERE! There are many firms offering debit cards: check the terms & conditions & fees. If someone is serious about owning a debit card that works abroad (in Cuba, but NOT "just"), then s/he can find better & cheaper alternatives to that pricey Duales.
Visa Debit Cards can be used worldwide, not just in Cuba. A Visa debit card can protect your credit & identity. It can be loaded faster online. And having a Euro-denominated account can be beneficial when the USD falls (as it has, dramatically). Many benefits, not just cheaper than the Dud Card.
One example is EPAY:
"You can send your EPAY Premium debit cards worldwide, including countries that are not accepted by some online payment systems: South Africa, Philippines, Morocco, India, Ukraine, Mexico, Cuba, China, Pakistan, Brazil, Russia, Thailand, Vietnam etc." and "It does not matter for EPAY, whether you want to send money to Canada, USA, Germany, or you want to send money to Cuba, Thailand or Vietnam - all payments are instant and secure."
Despite the misleading Duales spam that clutters this forum, the average American tourist visiting Cuba takes cash, "the best deal."
I'd like to hear from someone when they've actually GOT one of those Euro-denominated Visa cards and successfully used it. As I mentioned before, my Investment Manager friend swears an American cannot get one of these because it violates US laws enacted to prevent money laundering. I'm willing to be convinced he's wrong but not until someone says "I have one, I've used it, and it worked".
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