Visa question

Hi i know this question has been asked a million times in different ways before and i've looked at the faq and searched through previous posts and can't really find what i want.

Basicly i'm going to canada for a working holiday in about 3 weeks for roughly a 5 month stay. The problem is i have a 1.5 hour transit in honolulu. Now i'm pretty sure from what i've read recently i need a US transit visa because i am travelling to a country bordering the US and staying there for more than 90 days, so i won't be eligible for the visa waiver program. I don't think that now i will have time to apply for the visa and sit the interview at the US consulate before i leave.

I know these are the facts, i simply want to know other people experiences in this situation. If i just don't worry about the visa is this something they will pick when i arrive in honolulu and will they send me back to australia? Do you actually pass through US immigration when you arrive even though you are only there for a short transit? Is this something the airline you fly with police's themsleves (so you won't even get on the plane in australia without the visa)? Because it is only a short transit will they simply give you a VWP visa and not question where you are travelling onto? If they ask can i play dumb and say i thought i was eligible for the VWP as my stay in the US itself was for less than 90 days?

My only other real option is to change my return airfare now so that it appears that i will spend less than 90 days total in the US/canada then change it back when i get to canada, but i suspect this might cost a bit.

Thanks,

Drew.

Cross posted on the US branch.

Thanks terry, didn't really give the 1.5 transit time much consideration in terms of making the next flight, but both flights are with air canada, surely they wouldn't sell you a connecting flight that you couldn't make?

Drew.

If it's just a refuelling stop then you're safe because everyone will be in the same predicament.

If you're actually changing aircraft, then no, I wouldn't trust Air Canada not to leave you there and bump you to a later flight.

Most important: Did you buy the flights directly from the Air Canada website, or did you go through a Travel Agent?

Cheers,
Terry

The flights were purchased from an australian travel agent. I've just checked my itinerary and both the flight from australia to honolulu and from honolulu to canada have the same flight number, so i'm guessing it's just a refuelling stop.

Drew.

Purchasing through a TA can be a problem because you have no negotiating power with the airline. The rep can simply say your itinerary was too tight to be workable so of course you missed the flight. It's not their problem.

Since the flight number is the same though, that bodes well for you, and it shouldn't be a problem. If US Immigration/Customs is slow then it'll be affecting a pile of your fellow passengers too.

Good luck with the visa crap... that's a tricky one...

Cheers,
Terry

Your travel agent should be answering your questions. They booked the flights and have an obligation to make sure you have adequate transfer time as well as informing you of the visa requirements, whehter it is only a refuelling stop etc.

"... Your travel agent should be answering your questions..."

That would be nice, but in reality Travel Agents are sometimes the last people you can trust with this sort of stuff. Many are incompetent and a constant source of misinformation. The small print on their purchase contracts states that you (the traveler) are wholly responsible for proper documentation.

You are much further ahead to research directly on the embassy sites as the OP has obviously done, and on places like this forum. (Although Internet forums obviously have to be taken with a grain of salt as well.)

Cheers,
Terry

My travel agent has always been a reliable source of information on visas, was the first to inform me of which visas I would need and took care of the processing much more efficiently than on my own.
The travel agent should give the specifics of de-planing and why only 1 1/2 hr was allotted. Drew, has your travel agent told you?

"... My travel agent has always been a reliable source of information on visas..."

Then you are very fortunate.

Cheers,
Terry

It's the same plane. You get off, go through immigration and get on again. Not sure if your baggage gets unloaded, cleared through customs and reloaded - as the plane is bound for Canada probably not.

According to the rules you need a visa as you will not be leaving North America within 90 days and are not a legal permanent resident of Canada. I've no idea how strictly this is enforced and whether you can get away with a visa waiver. The primary check will be the airline at check in - if you get as far as Honolulu I doubt if you'll get asked too much about your plans.

OPer: Coincidentally I had lunch with my travel coordinator today. She's assumes you're on AC 034. She's 90% sure that as long as you're booked straight through to Vancouver you do not leave the aircraft in Honolulu, therefore US Immigration and Customs is not a concern. The 1.5 hour stop is only to refuel and to discharge the Honolulu passengers and take-on new Vancouver passengers. She says you're very lucky because many of the Australian flights clear US Immigration/Customs in Honolulu or Los Angeles, in which case you'd be screwed.

Like all pros though, she covered her butt by insisting that you confirm this info yourself...

Cheers,
Terry

Hi terry,

Thanks for you're reply again, you're right about my flight number, this sounds promising, i am booked straight through to vancouver, i'll try and check with the travel agent.

I also got this info from my cross posting in the US branch - apparently it may not matter about the actual booked exit date of the airfare from canada, just that you have a onward airfare (outside the US/canada/mexico) with a 1 year validity date. I can possibly just say i have an airfare with a 1 year validity and that i will book (or rebook) when i'm ready to leave (but within the 90 day VWP limit).

Drew.

I just checked the e-ticket the agent sent me and it dosen't even list honolulu. Honolulu is shown on a seperate intinery the agent has given me, but not the actual ticket. Maybe you don't even get off the plane.

In regards to my previous post does anyone know if you have to prove that you have a ticket with onward flight date of within the 90 days allowed with the VWP or just an onward ticket?

Drew.

There is I believe one flight a day which is transit only in Honolulu. The others you have to get off and get on again as described, even though it's the same plane. Don't know if it's your flight. If there's passengers leaving and joining, then probably not.

The validity of your ticket is a bit of a red herring. You may get to Canada but are still breaking the rules if you stay more than 90 days and could well face problems on a future visit/transit in the US as you will be flagged as an overstayer.

Good point #14 i hadn't thought of that, but what happens if i go to canada then enter the US via a land border again? From what i've read on here they view entry via land borders a bit differently - EG: what if after the 90 days i drive from vancouver to seattle? From what i've read on here they would probably consider me a canadian resident as i'm living and working in canada and just reissue the visa.

Does this sound right?

Drew.

The rules for the US have changed a lot in the last few years. Canadians only needed id to cross. Now we need a passport for entry if flying and next year for land entries too. Even though a passport is not required right now for a land crossing, those without a passport get a lot of questioning. You will need to show your passport and the rules applicable for Australians will apply.
Even though you are working in Canada, entry to the US is about Citizenship.
reference: www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs/content_multi_image_0006.shtm

#15
That could work - but then again it might not.

One scenario is that you are by that time you will be (on paper) an overstayer so could be refused re-admission to the US. To reduce the risk of this make sure you give up your visa waiver stub when you leave Honolulu on that first flight.

Another is that you will be OK. They won't 'reissue the visa' as you don't have one to reissue. But they may readmit you under the visa waiver scheme for a second visit.

All very unsatisfactory - it depends on interpretation of the rules (which are a little grey, but basically against you) in your favour.

From the US Consular Services, Australia
" I am transiting through the U.S. on my way to another country. Can I use VWP?
Yes, as long as your total stay in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and adjacent islands is less than 90 days, and you meet the other VWP requirements. You can use the VWP if, for instance, you are transiting the U.S. on a journey between Australia and Europe, or are transiting Guam between Australia and Japan.

However if for example you are transiting the U.S. on the way to a 6 month stay in Canada, you cannot use the VWP, as your total time in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and the adjacent islands will be over 90 days. In this case you should apply for a B-1/B-2 visitor visa, or a transit visa."

I highly recommend you call them and get the information you need directly from the source. If you are refused entry at point of entry, it will mess you up for all future travels to the US.

Good Luck

"... I highly recommend you call them and get the information you need directly from the source..."

Not sure why you posted #18. The OPer is aware of all this info, right from the beginning of the thread. It's because he is properly informed that he posted in the first place - a rarity on this forum when it comes to Visa queries...

Cheers,
Terry

With reference to #17, From my experience, if you arrive in the US you qualify for the VWP. They staple your green 90 day visa into your passport and you can enter and exit multiple times within the life of that visa. The problem, as I found out last week, is when you have an expired VWP entry visa still in your passport and try to re-enter the US. This causes difficulties for the borderguards, as youre supposed to hand in your VWP entry visa when you exit permanently. The fact id arrived from Quebec, travelling with 3 other members of my immediate family, all in posession of temporary Canadian residence visas (business visa for myself) in an Ontario registered car in my name, meant little to them. They were suspicious that id overstayed my visa, and had simply re-entered Canada on my business visa (no stamps in passport, just a stapled visa) and turned around to re-enter the US. At one stage they asked to see evidence of where id been for the last 2 months since the visa expiration date. They asked for hotel booking confirmation, which I had, asked to see evidence of my employment in Canada, which I didnt have, and asked me if I could produce anything to substantiate my situation. Further scrutiny of my Canadian business visa confirmed to them I was on a defence contract with the Canadian Airforce, and I supplied them with my employers number (holiday here last Fridayweek), so even that was no good to them. They eventually let me through after I fell into a conversation with one of them whose son has just been deployed to Afghanistan (so has my brother). Very unsettling. Their advice to me was to hand in my VWP near to or at the end of the 90 day period. Thats what I suggest you do, to save the hassle of entering the US in the future.
All my work colleagues travel with air Canada, montreal-vancouver-honolulu-sydney, and all say they have to clear US customs in Honolulu. As others have said, if you strike the border gods on a bad day, expect the worse.
Hope this helps, cheers, Andy...