Can I enter Canada on this Criminal Conviction? HELP !

I have a question which I need some help on

I recently recevied a "Conditional Discahrge" from court after I was charged with shoplifting. Something I`m thourogly ashamed of.

I am going to apply for the BUNAC non student Canada programme in December this year as I want to go to Canada in 2008 for a year.. and I know I can still apply with this conviction and pray I get accepted.

I am hoping to get sponsered by a company whilst in Canada and get to stay there longer..but I am worried that this conviction is going to hinder me in that process.

I am asking therefore for anyone who has some info on this subject to please PM or message back.. Ive looked at websites etc but Im hoping someone has some first hand experience of how the canadian laws are with someon from the UK having a "conditional discharge".. I am not being sentence to any jail time or anything.. I paid no fine.... only got this discharge thing...

Sorry I don't think we want criminals here and no one would hire you anyway.

Maybe you should try Australia because their ancestors were all criminals so they'd understand you better.

Thanks for that ignorant reply. However I am hoping more tolerant will reply.. and I have not gone in fully into the circumstances but I can assure you I am not a "criminal"

This link may be of help - or not.

It's not very encouraging I'm afraid. You can't apply for rehabilitation for 5 years from the date of your conviction.

There is no way anyone can predict what Canadian Immigration will do, but generally a Conditional Discharge isn't a problem. By its very nature a CD means no jail, no fine, and no record after the waiting period is over - so long as you haven't re-offended.

It's a bit of a crap shoot, but there's nothing you can do to help the situation, so worrying is useless. You're not eligible for Canadian Criminal Rehabilitation status, so the process is out of your hands. Make your application and see what happens.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Terry

Lululemon......you ignorant loser!!! How's about you grow up and act like a educated person......oh hang on I'm sorry, your from Canada!!!!

CheersTerry is correct, nomadicgal. And please remember that there has been no conviction registered for this offence -- you have been discharged. You will therefore not be lying if, when asked the question "do you have a criminal record?", you respond "no".

For what it's worth, I have never heard of a situation where a record of a discharge was used to deny entry under these circumstances. If you are truly concerned with this issue, however, I would suggest that you contact a Canadian immigration lawyer.

In the UK a conditional discharge occurs when the defendant has been found guilty - ie convicted - but receives no punishment unless s/he reoffends within a period set by the court.

So in the UK OP does have a criminal record. I gather the definition is subtly different in Canada - which one the Canadians will use is a bit of a guess - probably their own.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Lululemon......you ignorant loser!!! How's about you grow up and act like a educated person......oh hang on I'm sorry, your from Canada!!!!<hr></blockquote>
Classic. It's "you're from Canada", not "your from Canada" ms. educated non-Canadian.

rusty -- your comment is just as ignorant.

If, as #7 says, you were convicted but received no punishment, you cannot truthfully answer "no" to having a criminal record. I do not believe that Canim will look at interpreting it according to Canadian Law. They want to know if you have a criminal record in your own country. I suggest, as #6 did, you contact a canadian immigration lawyer and ask the question.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>a educated person<hr></blockquote>
Oh and it should be "an educated person"

A Canadian Immigration lawyer cannot help the OPer. She has a criminal conviction, period. No one can make that go away. Fortunately a CD is a minor offence that Canadian Immigration will (hopefully) ignore. It's a crap shoot, nothing more. Wasting money on a lawyer is useless.

Cheers,
Terry

One other option... Lie. Don't mention the CD. I have no idea if CDs are shared between UK and Canadian authorities, but I would suspect not. If it does come up in discussion with Canadian Immigration immediately admit everything, but plead ignorance that you didn't think it was regarded as a conviction since it's expunged from your record in 6 months (or whatever time frame the UK court handed down.) Act dumb.

OP you can pretty much ignore all the responses above. There will be no criminal record check when you apply, nor will there be one when you arrive. In other words, it will be your little secret. Do you have any idea of the number of people that travel all over the world with criminal records? The only time it is an issue is for Canadians and Americans traveling back and forth between their countries because they share their criminal record information. No such sharing is done with England so don't let the nay-sayers scare you.

But Im going with a compant called BUNAC and I have to declare this when I apply to the Canadina High Commission... there is a question thats asks if you have been convicted of a criminal offence in your own country so Im confused!

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>there is a question thats asks if you have been convicted of a criminal offence in your own country so I`m confused! <hr></blockquote>yes there is a question on the application. And many landing cards you fill out when entering another country asks the same thing. Nothing confusing about it - you lie.

You have the choice - you lie and answer no, and get on with your life, or you answer yes and remain in England. The choice is yours. And don't kid yourself for a second that BUNAC actually takes the time and spends the money to run criminal record checks on their applicants, because they absolutely do not. And don't think that somehow when you go through Immigration in Canada that they will know about your record because they won't. In fact they can't, unless of course you happen to be on Interpol's most wanted list.

So if lying is a moral issue for you then I wouldn't even bother sending in your application, as you will likely be refused, either by BUNAC or Canadian Immigration. If you can get your head past the moral dilema then just check the no box and enjoy your life. Your choice.

I have to tell the truth.....

If you have time you need to get a waiver (I think it's called a certificate of rehabilitation or something like that) from the Canadian Consulate General. I'm from the US so things may be a little different for you but I've had quite a few friends in the same situation and I'd advise taken the advice you're been given here with a grain of salt.

firstly, before you arrive in this great land, what have you done to repent your sins

You have received a "Conditional Discharge". First question - what are the conditions of your discharge? Second question - when do the conditions expire? In Canada, a person who receives a "discharge" following a finding of guilt has NOT been convicted. Therefore, if anyone ask you if you have been found guilty of an offence , the answer is "yes", but if they ask you if you have been convicted of an offence, the answer is "no". In Canada, the RCMP erases records of absol,ute discharges after 1 year, and conditional discharges after 3 years. If you are subject to "conditional discharge" under Canadian law, you are effectively on probation until the term of the discharge expires. If you break the terms of the discharge you will be convicted. Did you have a lawyer (and I include duty counsel) for your court appearance? You really need to understand what a "conditional discharge" means in England.If it means that you have not been convicted of anything, that might be useful to you. If it means you are on probation, it might affect whether or not you can leave the country. It all makes that packet of shrimp and curry crisps seem worth the 80p, doesn't it?

What Johnny Doe posted is 100% correct OP. However you have a problem with lying, which basically means you are hooped. No one on this website knows for sure what Canadian Immigration does and does not allow. And engaging the services of an immigation lawyer is just a massive waste of money, as even an immigation lawyer cannot predict how Canadian Immigration will react - they have a lot of discretion at the point of entry.

So as Johnny suggests, you either lie and forget about it (and that means lie to everyone - not "immediately admit everything" if it comes up in discussion with Immigration), or forget about your trip. It's really that simple. The chances of immigration or anyone else ever finding out about this problem are just about zero percent so not sure why such a reluctance to lie. You stole at least once - telling a little lie shouldn't be such a moral dilema!

Jack, if anything on your record somehow magically comes up with Canadian or US Immigration then it's stupid to continue to lie. Plead ignorance or whatever, but to deny it completely would accomplish nothing except giving the officers a good laugh as they denied entrance.

OPer: My Immigration lawyer confirms what I suggested in Post #11 and (partially) what Johnny stated in Post #12: A CD in the UK will never make it to Canadian Immigration records, so forget the whole thing ever happened and fill out your application normally. Lying (or selective memory if you prefer) works wonderfully in your particular case.

Johnny, there is some discussion in the past year or so that some criminal convictions between the UK and Canada are now shared outside of Interpol's records. In two cases this year a Camera Operator and a medium well known UK film director were both initially denied entry into Canada because of DUI offences that happened in the UK. My lawyer is puzzled how Canadian Immigration knew anything, and of course they're not taking...

Cheers,
Terry

They're also not talking... haha...

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Jack, if anything on your record somehow magically comes up with Canadian or US Immigration then it's stupid to continue to lie.<hr></blockquote>Agreed, however "magically" is the operative word, as the odds are remote to zero. But granted, when presented with the facts you can't really deny it.

"... however "magically" is the operative word..."

That's why I used it.

Cheers,
Terry

A 'conditional discharge' does not result in a criminal record. If there's no record, there's no conviction on record. As has been mentiond many times above, a 'conditional discharge' generally means that there might be a 'condition' or two attached to the discharge such as not to re-offend for a certain period of time. There may be others - its up to the judge. When the period of time ends, the conviction is discharged. It doesn't exist.

An 'unconditional discharge' also does not result in a criminal record. There is no record of conviction. There are no conditions attached to the discharge.

If you are really worried about long term problems, you should be able to apply for a pardon which is usually granted automatically in these situations - at least in English Canada where the same system of 'conditional' and 'unconditional' discharges are doled out by the court system which is based on the British legal system.

Generally you are asked "have you been convicted of a criminal offence?". Your answer truthfully is no. If you were 'convicted' in the true sense of the word, you would have a record of convictions - criminal.

I've seen the odd time the question, have you been charged with a criminal offence and again - there is no record if you have been discharged of the offence - read the word "d-i-s-c-h-a-r-g-e". You'll note that the definition of 'dis' as a prefix means "denoting reversal or absence of an action or a state". So once again - the answer is "NO".

Hope that makes things clear.

Someone who thinks you should be answering yes cannot grasp the concept of conditional discharges. They probably think a kid who was twelve and stole a car and who was convicted under the young offenders act and sentenced even, should also be answering yes for something they did when they were 'twelve' - something that is on a record that does not exist.

secretcover1 has no idea what they're talking about - at least not legally and lululemon lives in la-la-land unaware of activities that go on underneath her nose in her own neighbourhood.

I would suggest pleading ignorance before lying. I've had clients questioned about speeding tickets - so whatever info the U.S. is sharing it may well go quite deep.

But ignorance and the batting of eyelashes (I had no idea!) is always worth a shot.

As Terry says, it's a crap shoot.

#25?????? what do you do that you counsel on eyelash batting?

By now CSIS and Interpol are onto you anyway, OP. You have bared your soul on a forum that is scoured daily for miscreants and goof-offs (and for good reason). Al Jazeera gets less attention that Thorn Tree Forums.

Rainboy, a CD in the UK is a criminal conviction and on record until the time limit imposed by the court is over. It's not the same as Canada.

In any case, the OPer's question was answered many posts ago...

Cheers,
Terry

I know it was answered above, but there seemed to be some sort of continued confusion which is why I wrote "When the period of time ends, the conviction is discharged". The conditions, the charge and the conviction still stand until the time period decided by the judge expires with the guilty party having successfully completed the terms attached to the discharge. That's the case in English Canada and I presume the UK since its pretty much the same system. If you have a conditional discharge and you're still under the time period when for instance you re-offend or are arrested for another charge in Canada, the conviction is going to show up. Its not until the time period is up that the discharge takes place.
The OP never says when the conditional discharge time period is up. If its up at the time of application, then its legally discharged.