Thorn Tree travel forum

1

From what I've seen they don't even care if you can drive it as long as when you get back with your "tattoos" exahust burns you can pay for the repairs. In Sapa the Mbikes were not the usual mopeds but Russian thing 2people? no the ones I've seen are 4/5 seater http://I actually saw one on the bus to Hanoi with a three piece suite on it settee and two armchairs. have fun, but think twice before you venture out in Hanoi with one I heard that in HCMC 13 killed everyday in m/bike accidents.
mm
you mentioned as in Thailand couple of Thai bites alright

Wooden Bhuddas Although Thailand referred to here; same same, in Myanmar Laos and Vietnam

When you get into a minibus in Thailand or any bus there, for that matter you will notice a Bhudda in a box hanging from the rear view mirror, which itself will be obscured by floral garlands. This is necessary for protection against accidents, When accidents do happen the Tv seem to be there in minutes ensuring the graphic details are televised immediately to bus station TV’s around the country. The cameras go in close on decapitated m/bike riders and I’ve even seen them on TV even push paramedics in the middle of mouth to mouth resuscitations, out of the way to ensure good pictures of the dying. Hence the importance of the Bhuddas in a box.
How many times have you been in the minibus, overtaking as it speeds around a mountain bend to be confonted by a truck or bus coming straight at you. This is where the Bhudda in a box takes over. As you see the terror in the drivers eyes and he sees yours, as you are about to be crushed into oblivion, something remarkable happens and as you open your eyes to realize you are still alive he is gone and you see the rear of the offending vehicle slinking off into the distance behind you. The box once again has worked leaving the driver to continue overtaking on bends in impunity. However there are two kinds of Bhudda in a box that you will come across in Thailand especially, some are superior and made of wood these work efficiently and I am only here to tell this because of travelling in Thailand with many drivers sufficiently concerned over their passengers well being to have invested in this superior wooden ones, also they replace the floral garlands regularly from roadside vendors at traffic lights. The other inferior ones are made of plastic and I believe that these are responsible for the many tragedies we see on the bus station Tv’s with their in yer face reportage of traffic accidents. I also think that they have a connection straight to the reporters mobile phone so that they can be at the scene of the accident as it happens. I once saw a dead motorcyclist being filmed just outside Rayon on the Trat rd within minutes of the accident, what further proof is needed and he had neither a plastic or wooden Bhudda in a box.

Road Rage: On Yer Bike

I’m off to the temple to have my motorbike blessed by the Monk. It must be cursed with an evil spirit, damn thing crashed on me the other day. Massive loss of face. I burnt a ‘Bike Tattoo’ on me left leg. Me two mates, who were on the back, are pretty bruised up and my girlfriend, who I was on the phone to at the time, thinks I hung up on her. Now how’s that for bad luck! The bike is pretty scratched up but never mind that, I have lost face; I’ll be the laughing stock next time we go drag racing.
It wasn’t my fault that we crashed really. See this big noodle in his posh Volvo pulled out in front of me, which is kinda dangerous’ cause it’s difficult for people to steer their bike when they have a hand on their phone. Plus, the idiot didn’t notice that I had taken my helmet off after we passed the road block at Nimmanhaemin intersection. Bloody inconsiderate geezer could’ve damaged my brain.
So I’m taking the bike back for reblessing so it will be ‘lucky’ in time for the drag racing next weekend. At the last drag the Police showed up and confiscated a few of the guys’ bikes ‘cause I guess one guy died after the brakes failed on his bike. I’d hate to get unlucky and lose my bike like that.
Also, I’d taken off the mirrors, because mirrors just aren’t cool and the bike goes faster I reckon, but I didn’t notice the big old Merc. Behind me, and of course here in Thailand an orange light means speed up, so if you suddenly brake it’s letting the side down because there’ll be a guy ten cars back flooring it to follow the rest of the traffic through the red light. Anyway, I stopped which was pretty uncool because at least five of the drivers behind me were also flooring it and chatting on their mobiles at the same time. Oops! Well, what a mess that was. It took hours to sort out, with 1,000 baht notes http://$22.50 US changing hands loads of times, and arguments over on-the-spot cash payouts to take care of whatever insurance bribe was necessary. The Locals can be rather efficient at resolving situations which have massive potential for litigation.
I was pretty lucky no one noticed that my headlight wasn’t working, ’cause there’s an ’insurance fee ‘ for that as well. The men were arguing among themselves and there was a lot of loud “Krap, Krap, Krapping” going on. I don’t really understand Thai much but when Thais start “Krapping” on each other like this, you know they are being formal but serious, kind’a like an argument in a mens club where people keep starting their sentences: “With all due respect…..”
The thing is, here in Thailand, no one ever gets road rage, which is just as well. More people died in accidents over songkran than Sars and Iraq war combined. Never mind the temple blessing. Bloody hell, I’m safer in Baghdad than Bangkok. S. Cumming

montyman St East Asia , montyman2008 on flikr , montyman in Europe, Ukraine, Estonia ,Latvia,Berlin

2

Eric 2

You can rent any kind of bike you like with or without license. Believe me that really doesn't come into it. What you are going to be looking at renting will most probably (this is what most motorbike rental shops have to offer) be either a moped of some kind, a wave, a dream. Or a Minsk. If you haven't driven before and / or you are sticking to cities or towns then its probably easier to rent a moped rather than go though the hasssle of learning how to use a clutch and gears. They are easy to ride and nice and small for manouvarability, just be carefull when braking suddenly not to inadvertantly twist the throttle. I've witnessed many a scrape involving this kind of scenario. However if you are heading out of town into the hills or whereever what you want is a Belarrusian Minsk. These are imported from what used to be a provonce of the soviet republic as agricultural machinary and are built to withstand the most rugged of terrain. Preworld war design they are easy to drive, rugged and everyone knows how to fix one. If your doing much biking you'll quickly learn how yourself, as the design really couldn't be much simpler. They are two stroke 125 cc smelly dirty and a lot of fun.

Beware however that most Vietnamese, although having learnt to drive soon after crawling, have little to no idea about road safety. You'll witnes things that would lose you your licence in most western countries and have to be constantly on guard for kids on push bikes, tenagers driving like the proverbial bat out of hell, old grannies stopping to chat in the middle of the road, I could go on for ever. Add to this the roads which even the most patriotic of Vietnamese would hesitate to call anything less than life threatening and you have something akin to video game. It can be fun but remember that old bikers maxim of "Everyone is out there to kill you" It could save your life.

Going back to the license issue, you don't need one really, for a couple of reasons. Firstly I;ve never been stoped by he police and have been told by Vietnamese and western old hands alike that this is because its just more hassle than its worse. Why stop Mike when he doesn't speak the language, will kick up a fuss and doesn't know the score? (By the way, the score is 50,000 dong) when you can stop Lan who does speaka your language and doesa knowa the scora? . Which brings me for to the second reason you don't need a licence. The police, if they were to stop you, don't want to see a licence they want to see the green stuff (actually is green over here!)

Finally (cuss all you want is a bike not a treatise) don't hit anyone/thing. If you do and its a thing pay the man and get out of there...you really don't want the police involved and neither does anyone else for a variety of reason I can't be bothered to go into. If you hit a person and have a heart you have to stop. The Police will get involved and you'll end up shelling out cash for hospital bills e.t.c. So botom line; DON'T HIT ANYONE

I've had a Minsk for over a year, drive carefully,have never hit anyone / thing and find it the only way to travel!

Take care and hope you have a great trip

Joel Asia Hotel Bookings & Travel Ezine

3

You can rent one easily and without a license. You do however need a license, which as a 'tourist' you can't get. An international or local bike license is not valid. The motorbike situation in the country continues to change. In the late eighties and early nineties it was mostly underpowered Honda's (at least in the south of the country). Since then, the motorbike situation has exploded with millions more bikes on the road. Also most people now ride 125/150cc fast bikes, another reason for the very many accidents. During my last visit to Saigon in March, the police were checking papers on all major roads, every day and they had trucks standing-by to load undocumented bikes. If and when you are involved in a, more or less serious accident in which someone is injured, police or not, you'll compensate the injured party. Cash. Your bills will not be covered by your insurance and the bike owner will go after you. Considering the traffic madness in the big cities, I find the 'don't hit anyone' advice quite silly...

"Motorbike accidents account for up to three-quarters of all traffic accidents occurring in Ho Chi Minh City. Across the rest of the country motorbike accidents have accounted for up to 65 percent of all road accidents so far this year. Last year, nearly 13,000 motorbike crashes were documented, accounting for 62.3 percent of all road accidents. In the same year, a total of 7,500 people were killed, mostly due to head injuries. Nearly 15,000 were injured. The increase in accidents and general lack of road safety awareness have been attributed to young reckless drivers, poor road networks and the rapidly increasing number of motorbikes on the road. The wearing of helmets is already compulsory on national and inter-provincial highways following a change to road safety law last year."

Vietnam News Agency 09/05/2001

Your choice.

4

Agree with #3. Quoting from the US Dept of State web site: International drivers permits or US drivers licenses are not valid in Vietnam. Foreigners renting vehicles risk prosecution or imprisonment for driving without a valid license... If you are involved in a serious accident, you could face a hostile crowd of Vietnamese also, regardless of fault.

5

Thanks for the answers.
On post #3 and #4 something remains unclear however: what should I do if I really want to legally rent a motorbike ?

6

#2......can the Minsk hold two people easily? I'm planning to motorbike from Saigon through the delta and back, and want a bike that's got decent power and can give my girl a fairly comfortable ride as pillion. Also, how easy is the delta to ride through?

#5...you need a Vietmanese licence to LEGALLY drive in Vietnam, but as 2 said anything goes in the third world if you flash a bit of green :)

7

To the OP and #6....you can't get a bike license...and 'flashing a bit of green' won't do the trick.

8

I'm a name not a number!

Minsk can def hold two people + a couple of pigs! but depending on luggage might not be the comfiest ride in the world. Pack light.

In reply to replies after me and to maximum, I know little of Saigon, only Hanoi, where I live, and surrounding areas I'm afraid......never been stopped and know only a few Westeners (over a year), but many Vietnamese, who have...bit of green, on your way sir. Of the 20 or so westerners I know who drive bikes in Nam, none, I believe, have local licences, and none have had any problems regarding this. Maybe the situation is different down south, I don't know. As I said before, hitting someone is when it does get serious. A colleague of mine recently hit a girl on a bicycle seriously injuring her. Not his fault in anyway but being the larger vehicle had to pay all medical costs. He didn't have a licence and the issue never really came up. The girl is now fully recovered thank god. Straight Chaser - good relevant info but why should the advice of "DON'T HIT ANYONE" be silly. It's not a flippant off the cuff remark but a serious warning. The roads and traffic are pretty crazy and you have to be constantly on your guard.

Good luck Maximum in whatever you decide to do.

Joel Asia Hotel Bookings & Travel Ezine

9

I think maybe he felt the advice was a touch obvious - like perhaps 'don't fall over' or even 'keep breathing'...

Thanks for reading my post today, and I hope you join me again on another post soon....

10

I do actually have a Vietnamese license, but it is true that I have never been stopped by the boys in pink. Agree with Joely though: hit somebody and you are deep in the s....t, license or not. Pay up and get the hell out of dodge before the coppers arrive.

"Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time."
Catherine Zandonella.
Check out Birding in SE Asia for traveling and birding in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Bhutan, Mongolia, Malaisia, Taiwan, and India.

11

What I really want to know is how Vietnam's roads compare to India. I've listened to so many people preaching doom about Vietnam roads but I wonder if they've ever experienced the madness of India.

If anyone has been biking in both countries and can compare them, that would be great. My girl and I have already biked in India and survived.

Another point I often make is that roads in rapidly developing nations seem worse if you're not in control, ie not driving. Being propelled haplessly along in a taxi bad a mad local out to get every last dong from the walking bank who's just stepped into his cab is arguably more dangerous than taking to the roads yourself.

I remember the first ever taxi I got in India....the driver was about 70 and had cataracts in his eyes!! He could hardly see a thing yet drove us at insane speeds barely missing people and other vehicles. That drive was terrifying, and to a large extent changed my views on road safety in the third world.

At least on a bike of your own you have control of your own speed and trajectory. Sure, another driver can fuck you up, but the same risk exists when using public transport and taxis. This is why the nah-sayers and law spouters can irritate sometimes, especially if they have never taken to the roads themselves.

12

Motorbike accident:
in july 2001 I fall down in Hanoi (aroud the lake) with my minsk, hurting two youg girl crossing the street pushing their bikecycle.
I was driven quite slow 20-30 km/h, but the road was verry wet...
The girls were not injuried. But all the people get around me...
The trick is: "don't wake up first" let your "victims" get up first. The latest up is supposed to be the most injured.
after 5 or 10 sec. I wake up, with a pitty looking, insure myself of the girl and jump on my bike and leave.

I know people in bad trouble for few "touching" in comon circulation in the city. not because of the accident, but because of his bargaring to pay for an accident his was not responsible.

I think the maximum speed for my minsk was 50 km/h... not so dangerous.

13

Im back now after 4 days on one of Cuongs bikes. I took the following route

Hanoi - Son La: not along highway 6. Coung advised against it cause of roadworks. The route he showed us on the map was a bit confusing ... the road was not on the map. After an hour or two we found our way and hit some really beautiful views. Drove the last two hours in the dark - not to be recommened, but pure adrenaline.

Son La - Lai Chao: Along highway 6. Again some very beautiful views ... amazing. Passing through all the hill tribe villages kids would come running out screaming and waving at us. Felt like Paris - Dakar. Ran out of petrol for the last 8Km stretch, luckily downhill but again in the dark.

Lai Chao - Sapa: "Only" 197 km, but still the easiest day of the three. The views were not as good as the previous two days and the last 20Km into Sapa was dense fog. Sapa itself was covered in mist and drizzle, so not very nice

The first two days we lived on Pho, red bull and crackers. Nobody spoke a word of english pretty much untill Sapa, and people are not really that friendly compared to the rest of SE Asia so this was challenging at times. Only in Tam Duong did we find a place which served really nice food, and also the first white person in two days

The hill tribe people you pass along the way are amazingly friendly and enthousiastic. Anywhere we stopped they would come running up to us and we had alot of fun taking foto's and then showing it to them on the lcd screen. they loved it.

What struck me about Sapa is that those same hill tribes have degenerated into selling dope to us tourists and hastling you to buy stuff off them. This was not very nice to see. Life is very hard for them but any contact they have with the western world seems to produce shitty results

Because of the bad weather we decided to just head out of Sapa the next day and go to Lao Cai to get the night train back, bikes on the train. Not cheap!

Cuongs bikes were excellent and i cant recommend him enough. Doing those 800+ Km on a bike from "some guy" is NOT a good idea. He gave us the Minsk sports models (higher and with better suspensions) for 6 USD a day and even though he gave us lots of spare parts we needed none of them, and we did rag those bikes like hell going up some very bumpy roads ...

The experience of a life time. Without a doubt the best views ive ever seen in the whole of south east asia.

Anyone wanting more information just send me a private message. Here are Cuongs details again or go to the Highway 4 bar listed in the book

Cuongs Motorbike adventure
1 Luong Ngoc Quyen Str.
tel - 04.9261534 or 0913518772
coungminsk@yahoo.com

14

Motorbike tours in Vietnam
(I have been asked to duplicate this from my original post in early April on to this thread.)

I have recently finnished a motorbike tour of the Central Highlands.

The LP guide talks about these kinds of tours from "Easyriders" in Dalat, but I was approached by guides in Nha Trang doing similar things.
I have to say that the bike tour was the best part of my trip. We went from Nhatrang, up to Buonmathuot, then out to to see the Elephant villages nr the Cambodian border, up to Pleiku and Kontum, over parts of the Ho Chi Minh Trail and down to a hotsprings nr the coast and finally arrived in Hoian. I then decided to go on with the tour to Hue. If I had more time I would have continued on to Hanoi. Maybe next year. The guide was very flexible and covered areas North and South aswell as Central. The motorbike (not a scooter) was also very comfortable.

These guys hang out in Biet Thu Street, Nhatrang.
My guide was Nam;
namshotgun@hotmail.com
www.geocities.com/namshotgun

One word of WARNING though. A tourist I met up with had had troubles with a guide from Dalat. She eventually "walked out" on the tour and got to Nhatrang with fellow tourists. After meeting a more responsible and professional tour guide she continued with him for 6 weeks in the North.
Please be very careful and interview your guide well before agreeing to do a tour, check his itineraries, knowledge, motorbike, and if he has a Tour Guide Licence.