6 week cross country trip with some specific questions
Replies: 13 - Last Post: Mar 16, 2013 9:06 AM Last Post By: MGSlone
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6 week cross country trip with some specific questions
Hi All, I am looking for some suggestions for an RV trip we are taking in mid May through nearly the end of June (6 weeks). I'm really wondering about the Bryce/Zion/Mesa Verde/Canyonlands/Arches leg of the trip. For example, how much time do I need in each place to get a good idea of what there is to see. We are traveling with my in-laws so there will not be a lot of strenuous hiking involved. Any hiking would have to be easy and short. I am very flexible with my days/times as the only place I plan to have a reservation at is Yellowstone area. This is my tentative schedule.May 13th - Depart NJ 7am drive to Bristol VA area (approx. 10 hrs driving, we may decide to stop sooner)
May 14th - Depart Bristol VA 7am area arrive Great Smoky Mountains (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
May 15th - Depart Great Smoky Mountains 10am arrive Chattanooga, TN (approx. 3.5 hrs driving)
May 17th - Depart Chattanooga, TN 12pm arrive Nashville, TN (approx 2 hrs. driving)
May 18th - Depart Nashville, TN 3pm arrive Memphis, TN (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
May 19th - Depart Memphis, TN 3pm arrive Arkadelphia, AK area (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
May 20th - Depart Arkadelphia, AK 7am arrive Austin, TX (approx. 7 hrs driving)
May 21st - Depart Austin, TX 2pm arrive San Antonio, TX (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
May 23rd - Depart San Antonion, TX 8am arrive Amarillo, TX (approx. 8 hrs. driving)
May 24th - Depart Amarillo, TX 8am driving on Rt. 66 as much as possible taking our time to arrive in Holbrook, AZ area by the next day (May 25th)
May 26th - Depart Holbrook, AZ 10am (or earlier) arrive at Grand Canyon south rim area (approx 3 hrs. driving)
May 29th - Depart Grand Canyon area 12pm (or earlier) arrive Boulder City/Hoover Dam/Lake Mead/Las Vegas area (approx. 4 hrs. driving) We are thinking of staying at an RV park on the strip near the Circus Circus casino. But not positive since we would like to see hoover dam and maybe rent a house boat for the day at Lake Mead. (SUGGESTIONS ON THIS LEG OF TRIP APPRECIATED)
June 1st - Depart Boulder City/Las Vegas area 8am arrive Zion/Bryce (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
June 3rd - Depart Zion/Bryce area 7am arrive Mesa Verde (via Monument Valley (approx 7.5 hrs. driving)
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 6th - Depart Canyonlands/Arches area 7am arrive Grand Tetons/Jackson area (approx 9.5 hrs. driving)
June 10th - Depart Grand Tetons 7am arrive West Yellowstone (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 15th - Depart Yellowstone 9am arrive Cody, WY taking our time arrive some time in the afternoon.
June 17th - Depart Cody, WY 8am arrive Custer, SD (stopping along the way to see Devils Tower) sometime around 3:30pm
June 20th - Depart Custer, SD 8am drive thru Badlands (driving approx. 10 hrs. this day stopping somewhere overnight)
June 21st - Driving to NJ drive around 9 hrs.
June 22nd - Driving to NJ drive around 8 hours arrive HOME.
I am allowing an extra day to get home (that Sunday if needed). I am not set in stone with any dates with the exception of Yellowstone. I may have wiggle room around the specified dates if I have to, as long as there are reservations available. My biggest questions are as follows:
1. How much time do I need at Zion/Bryce/Canyonlands/Arches/Mesa Verde? I want to drive through Monument Valley and not sure how long that would take to see those sights. I am also guessing I am going to have to drive around or through Grand-Staircase Escalante National Monument to get to Mesa Verde? Also, is driving through that area ok with an RV? Twists-turns? Steep grades?
2. When in the Las Vegas/Boulder City area am I better off staying at the RV park on the strip? How accessible is it to go to Hoover Dam and Lake Mead from that base point for day trips? Especially driving an RV.
3. When staying in San Antonio, is it an RV friendly city or would we be better off renting a car for a few days? I want to do the River Walk.
4. What are some good things to see along the route 66 area between Amarillo, TX area and Las Vegas area. This leg of the trip is supposed to be leisurely.
5. I want this trip to be somewhat spontaneous with driving times and days but at the same time have a general idea of the direction we are heading. Are we trying to fit too much in? Should I eliminate something along the way? Are some of my days too long to be driving? We did a similar trip about 10 years ago with our kids but did not hit the southwest. Some days we really drove a lot, sometimes 12-14 hours. It was too much at times and I would not want to do that again. That is why I tried to keep driving to a somewhat doable amount per day. The first day and the last days would be longer.
Other background: We will be renting a car in Yellowstone to do daily driving around the park. Our RV is a 31ft. Class C motorhome. We are not pulling anything and I am traveling with my in-laws in their mid 70's and two dogs.
Any help/suggestions on this itinerary would be awesome!! As well as suggested sites along the way.
Thanks, Maria
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5. I want this trip to be somewhat spontaneous with driving times and days but at the same time have a general idea of the direction we are heading. Are we trying to fit too much in?I am the first - the very first - to admit that I am a conservative driver. On all of our US road-trips we look at 150-200km per day absolute maximum. But even so, it seems to me you are into extreme driving, without any sense of seeing the places that you are flying by; personally - I think it's not feasible. Others might have a different view of course.
Also note that Hwy 441 across Great Smoky Mountain NP is closed for repairs - so you might need to think about your drive through to Chattanooga.
And I have looked at your Western itinerary (an area of the world I know pretty well) - and again your itinerary is terribly rushed.
I could be much more specific about where I think it's unrealistic ... but I'll wait until you get back to us with some more comment. But meanwhile:
June 1st - Depart Boulder City/Las Vegas area 8am arrive Zion/Bryce (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
June 3rd - Depart Zion/Bryce area 7am arrive Mesa Verde (via Monument Valley (approx 7.5 hrs. driving)
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 6th - Depart Canyonlands/Arches area 7am arrive Grand Tetons/Jackson area (approx 9.5 hrs. driving)
June 10th - Depart Grand Tetons 7am arrive West Yellowstone (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 3rd - Depart Zion/Bryce area 7am arrive Mesa Verde (via Monument Valley (approx 7.5 hrs. driving)
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 6th - Depart Canyonlands/Arches area 7am arrive Grand Tetons/Jackson area (approx 9.5 hrs. driving)
June 10th - Depart Grand Tetons 7am arrive West Yellowstone (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
This is incredibly rushed - apart from the four nights you seem to be allocating to GTNP - which to me seems inexplicable. It is all quite unbalanced.
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Mesa Verde requires about half a day as it involves a guided tour of the two main archaeological sites. Depending on how busy it is, you might have to wait for your tour to begin and then it takes an hour or two for the tour (I can't quite remember!!) You could spend the afternoon in Durango, which is the nicest town in the region. However, this is a bit out of the way from Canyonlands...but Cortez isn't that interesting and Dolores and Mancos are very nice but too small to occupy onself for more than an hour. Alternatively, with all the driving you are planning, it might be nice to have an afternoon to take it easy.From Amarillo, I'd detour off I-40 (Rte 66's current incarnation) to Santa Fe, New Mexico. If you do this, it might make more sense to re-jig your intinerary to go from Santa Fe to Durango to Mesa Verde through Utah and into Las Vegas that way.
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in mid May through nearly the end of June
The last Monday in May is Memorial Day. That weekend (Fri-Mon) is the unofficial start of the summer travel season. Places, especially parks get crowded. Know where you'll be and book ahead.how much time do I need in each place to get a good idea of what there is to see. We are traveling with my in-laws so there will not be a lot of strenuous hiking involved. Any hiking would have to be easy and short.
A day apiece, minimum. If you can get two apiece for Zion and Canyonlands, you're better off. If you can get a second for Arches, you're doing even better.Prepare for heat throughout much of that region (especially near Moab).
The only part of your schedule I really like is the Tetons and after. Everything else is very rushed.
Some suggestions:
May 15th - Depart Great Smoky Mountains 10am arrive Chattanooga, TN
Don't bother with Chattanooga. You now have a night for something else.May 20th - Depart Arkadelphia, AK 7am arrive Austin, TX (approx. 7 hrs driving)
May 21st - Depart Austin, TX 2pm arrive San Antonio, TX (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
This is a waste of a night. Take the extra two hours and get to Austin.May 21st - Depart Austin, TX 2pm arrive San Antonio, TX (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
May 23rd - Depart San Antonion, TX 8am arrive Amarillo, TX (approx. 8 hrs. driving)
May 24th - Depart Amarillo, TX 8am driving on Rt. 66 as much as possible
You're going well out of your way to get to an Interstate. Route 66 was decommissioned decades ago, and replaced along much of its length with interstates. If you want to drive it, you can take the small section between Seligman and Kingman in Arizona.May 24th - Depart Amarillo, TX 8am driving on Rt. 66 as much as possible
Head to Carlsbad instead.
arrive in Holbrook, AZ area by the next day (May 25th)
Just get to the canyon. With a full day in Santa Fe, if you can.May 26th - Depart Holbrook, AZ 10am (or earlier) arrive at Grand Canyon south rim area (approx 3 hrs. driving)
May 29th - Depart Grand Canyon area 12pm
That's a long time for someone not wanting to hike much. Cut a day (use for Santa Fe).May 29th - Depart Grand Canyon area 12pm
But not positive since we would like to see hoover dam
You will drive past the Hoover Dam on your way from the canyon to Vegas. Stop then.Zion/Bryce area
You do relaize these parks are two hours apart, right?June 3rd - Depart Zion/Bryce area 7am arrive Mesa Verde (via Monument Valley (approx 7.5 hrs. driving)
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
I'm going to recommend you skip both MVs. Instead, drive Utah 12 through Capitol Reef to Moab. You'll save time, both driving and sightseeing, and drive through a very scenic area. You can use the days you save elsewhere to lessen the rush.
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
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I agree with ref_traveller, Amarillo to Santa Fe is about 6 hours drive, taking the shortcut from Clines Corners, along Interstate-40, northeast through Eldorado to Interstate-25, then southwest 15 minutes to the Old Pecos Trail offramp to Santa Fe. If you are 55+, there is a beautiful RV park at 3471 Cerrillos Road -- Trailer Ranch, right on the original route for Route #66 (Santa Fe was included in the original Route #66). One block away, across Cerrillos Road, is another RV park for young families. City bus transportation is cheap and very convenient to take you 10 miles to the downtown Plaza. There are free shuttlebuses downtown to take you to see the major attractions at Canyon Road art galleries and the Railroad art and farmers' markets and boutiques. The Plaza has many boutiques and excellent restaurants. There are 300 art galleries in Santa Fe and a dozen museums. There are many entertainment venues, including plays, various kinds of music, including various cultural themes, such as flamenco dancing. Santa Fe pueblo-style architecture is all adobe -- if you have been to Marrakech, Morocco, it will be reminiscent. There are a number of Pueblo Indian villages nearby and an Indian boarding school and Indian university art institute in Santa Fe. There is also a strong Hispanic culture, including festivals and historic or religious ceremonies at or near the cathedral.Highways #64 and #84 from Santa Fe to Chama, then to Pagosa Springs, Durango, and Mesa Verde is very beautiful. You could find an RV park in Durango, which is just a few miles from Mesa Verde. Monument Valley is also close by, within just a few hours' drive.
Edited by: trekker502
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It's always hard to put yourself in another's shoes, even if you know them well. Some people are quite content to sit for a few days and look at something marvelous / beautiful. But, most aren't. My guess is that at least one of your party won't be. Thus, the following kind-of assumes that you don't want to do that.Approaching Grand Canyon from the east, Petrified Forest National Park is interesting. But, most wouldn't list it as one of the five high-points of the Four Corners area (a few would).
Grand Canyon (South Rim) has some easy walks, but most are more-or-less along roads. If limited to short/easy walks, someone(s) will probably get bored after driving the East Rim Drive (which you can do on the way in) and taking the shuttles out to Hermit's Rest and Yaki Point. As bzookaj says, you probably have too much time here.
Zion has a couple of excellent short and easy walks: Riverside Walk aka Gateway to the Narrows, Weeping Rock (a bit steep, but very short), Lower Emerald Pool, and perhaps Canyon Overlook (trail fairly easy but not entirely smooth); and the possibility of a short horseback outing along Sand Bench. Everything else for the non-hiker is pretty much sightseeing along the few roads (including perhaps the separated road in the northwest corner of the Park in the Kolob Canyons area). Probably not a long stay, but maybe a full day or day-and-a-half. Zion can also get pretty hot in early June (though not necessarily).
Bryce has lots of fairly-short-and-not-very-difficult hikes, but few really-short-and-really-easy walks. I suspect you need the latter. You may want to drive down to Rainbow Point and walk out to the Bristlecone Pines, stopping at a few viewpoints on the way (e.g., "Natural Bridge"). Otherwise, just enough time to visit the viewpoints around the main amphitheater. Another possible complication there is the high altitude (8000'-9000' elevation); if the in-laws are getting elderly and not in the best of health, they may be adversely affected.
I consider Grand-Staircase / Escalante to be primarily a hikers'-and-back-road-drivers' area; it sounds like you won't be either, so I wouldn't consider it a "destination". This is not intended to discourage you in the least from driving the extraordinary Utah 12 (which I, personally, would choose over driving through Monument Valley).
Capitol Reef has a couple of excellent nearly-level and pretty much as-long-as-you-want walks through narrow gorges (Capitol Gorge, Grand Gulch). Not sure if the old orchards there will have much interesting to pick in early June. The superb easyish hike to Hickman Natural Bridge may (or may not) be too much for the in-laws.
As noted by bzookaj, Arches can also get pretty hot in early June (though not necessarily). A number of good short walks there, especially Devils Garden and at the Windows. Fiery Furnace is not hard, but can be a bit rough in places. Takes at least a good part of a day.
Canyonlands - Island in the Sky (and Dead Horse Point state Park) has many fine viewpoints, and several nice short-and-easy walks (e.g., Mesa Arch, Grandview Point area). Also takes at least a good part of a day. Canyonlands - Needles is worthwhile, but for someone based in Moab is probably lower priority, as most (not all) of the interesting stuff requires hiking (Slickrock Loop is fairly easy, but not entirely smooth - and long enough that caring for the dogs could be a problem; other non-trivial trails are more strenuous hikes).
One can spend a day driving around Grand Teton (e.g., to Signal Mountain) and taking the boat ride on Jenny Lake, and maybe the equivalent of another taking some of the (relatively few) easy walks (like String / Leigh Lakes) plus maybe a boat trip on the Snake. You may have a bit too much time there as you would not be able to do the less easy trails.
Finally, some opinion, which may or may not be good advice for you.
I would forget about the tiny fragments of US66 east of AshFork, Arizona.
Unless you have particular interest in the Ancestral Puebloans, I would buy some more time by skipping Mesa Verde. You can get some idea of the ancient Native American cultures of the area by stopping at Walnut Canyon, Sunset Crater, and Wupatki National Monuments plus Tusayan Ruin (along South Rim's East Rim Drive) along your way in Arizona, and Anasazi State Park along Utah 12 in Boulder, Utah. In all cases, much smaller, but requiring no detours.
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May 23rd - Depart San Antonion, TX 8am arrive Amarillo, TX (approx. 8 hrs. driving)
May 24th - Depart Amarillo, TX 8am driving on Rt. 66 as much as possible taking our time to arrive in Holbrook, AZ area by >the next day (May 25th)
May 26th - Depart Holbrook, AZ 10am (or earlier) arrive at Grand Canyon south rim area (approx 3 hrs. driving)
May 29th - Depart Grand Canyon area 12pm
May 24th - Depart Amarillo, TX 8am driving on Rt. 66 as much as possible taking our time to arrive in Holbrook, AZ area by >the next day (May 25th)
May 26th - Depart Holbrook, AZ 10am (or earlier) arrive at Grand Canyon south rim area (approx 3 hrs. driving)
May 29th - Depart Grand Canyon area 12pm
I agree with bzookaj's advice here. Go via Carlsbad to Sante Fe, then to Grand Canyon. Given your interests, one full day at GC, maybe two nights with a full day in the middle, would be perfectly adequate. Even allowing for an interest in Rt. 66, there is little along this stretch to justify a detour. Carlsbad Caverns and Sante Fe, on the other hand, are without question worth your time.
May 29th - Depart Grand Canyon area 12pm (or earlier) arrive Boulder City/Hoover Dam/Lake Mead/Las Vegas area (approx. >4 hrs. driving) We are thinking of staying at an RV park on the strip near the Circus Circus casino. But not positive since we >would like to see hoover dam and maybe rent a house boat for the day at Lake Mead.
June 1st - Depart Boulder City/Las Vegas area 8am arrive Zion/Bryce (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
June 1st - Depart Boulder City/Las Vegas area 8am arrive Zion/Bryce (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
Unless you have a several days to a week, a houseboat rental will be a profound waste of time and money. Lake Mead offers the casual visitor very little in the way of attractions besides its own slightly surreal existence. See Hoover Dam is on the way from GC, stop then. Two whole days in Vegas would be a bit much for some, a bit short for others. Depends on what you're interested in.
June 1st - Depart Boulder City/Las Vegas area 8am arrive Zion/Bryce (approx. 3 hrs. driving)
June 3rd - Depart Zion/Bryce area 7am arrive Mesa Verde (via Monument Valley (approx 7.5 hrs. driving)
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 6th - Depart Canyonlands/Arches area 7am arrive Grand Tetons/Jackson area (approx 9.5 hrs. driving)
June 3rd - Depart Zion/Bryce area 7am arrive Mesa Verde (via Monument Valley (approx 7.5 hrs. driving)
June 5th - Depart Mesa Verde 8am arrive Canyonlands/Arches area (approx. 2 hrs. driving)
June 6th - Depart Canyonlands/Arches area 7am arrive Grand Tetons/Jackson area (approx 9.5 hrs. driving)
This section is something of a mess - WAY too much in there. Zion and Bryce are about 2 hours apart. Spend one night at each. Cut Mesa Verde - there are a number of other places along your route to get aquainted with ancestral puebloan culture if that is an interest, and without such a lengthy detour. Spend at least a whole on the drive from Bryce to Moab via Escalante. You may want to park at the campground in Capitol Reef for a night if your schedule works out - it is quite nice. In Moab, allow a day each for Arches and Canyonlands Island in the Sky...and I've already used up all up your time in this area even without detouring to Mesa Verde and Monument Valley.
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WOW...! What a trip...Plans this detailed are bound to go haywire... The road has many unpredictable things about it...
Why not just drive west and enjoy the view...
Stop and take photos of interesting things... Sleep in Interstate Rest Areas after midnight... I have heard that Walmart will let you park overnight in their parking lots...but I don't know this for sure...
Have a General Plan...like... See the Grand Canyon...Do Arches...and Enjoy the Yellowstone... Because these areas are so spectacular that spending several days at each of them would be well worth it... Being on the road constantly gets very tedious...
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I have a question for you mmiley. Do you intend to stop and see anything? This trip seems like mostly driving.Why make the detour all the way to Great Smokey Mountains National Park if all you have time to do is drive US-441 over Newfound Gap?
1. The drive through monument Valley is not the most RV friendly road you will ever see. I don't know if they will let a Nimitz class RV take the tour. You may want to call the Navajo Nation and ask them. The road through Zion is twisty and steep. I have followed enough big RVs through it to know that they do fit. Sometimes the tunnel is alternating one-way trafiic.
We are thinking of staying at an RV park on the strip near the Circus Circus casino.
2. The RV park is part of Circus Circus. (Somehow, I can't picture Elvis arriving in Las Vegas in an RV. Now the Griswolds are another thing.)Taking the old road down the side of Black Canyon to Hoover Dam will be a good test of your RV skills, your drive train, and you brakes.
The only houseboat rental I know about on Lake Mead is at Callville Marina. It is not particularly convenient to Boulder City. Is a houseboat what you really want for a day or, more likely, an afternoon on the lake?
3. I would not consider Downtown San Antonio to be "RV friendly." I'd start with, where are you going to park it. A long walk between the hotel and the RV may not be a plan for geriatric inlaws. You better have a plan for The Strip too. Lots of walking no matter where you stay in las Vegas. I was there with the Mother-in-Law a few years ago. She sat in a wheelchair. The rest of us pushed. You will be walking in heat too.
4. Amarillo, TX to Holbrook, AZ is called I-40. Dig down through the pavement of I-40 and you may find relics of US-66. If you want to waste an hour, you can drive through Albuquerque on Central Ave, aka "Historic U. S. 66." Elsewhere, there is a lot to see along the route. The Berringer Meteor Crater, Sunset Crater, Walnut Canyon, Painted Desert/Petrified Forest, Santa Fe, I suggest Google and a good guidebook. You may also get a AAA trip-tik. It sounds like you will have plenty of "navigators" riding with you. The trip-tik will help them "help" you navigate.
5. You need a plan for the dogs in the national parks. You can't leave them in an RV. They would cook. Leaving them chained up at the RV is not much better if it is even allowed. They have to be on a chain or inside something at all times in national parks.
6. Whether or not you realize it, you are going to have some 12-14 hour days "in the saddle." I hope you are up to it. I also hope that your in-laws are up to it. Long road trips with the elderly are worse than long road trips with young kids or girlfriends. You are quoting drive times. Those do not include stops, construction, waiting for grandma to do something, food stops, etc., etc., etc.
I realize that you are trying to satisfy multiple and conflicting agendas. Trying to please everyone is the best way to displease every one. I don't envy you. Good luck!
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The road through Zion is twisty and steep. I have followed enough big RVs through it to know that they do fit. Sometimes the tunnel is alternating one-way trafiic.
A quick note about the tunnel:Oversized vehicles must pay a fee to use it, and it's only open certain hours of the day.
See here for more.
and two dogs.
Dogs are highly restricted in national parks. Many trails prohibit them (there will be signs), and leashes are required at all times.
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