1

1. Last october
2. Frankfurt airport
3. My passport was scanned and checked for entry stamps
4. I didn't have a visa and no overstay, but the immigration officer wanted an explanation for why there was no entry stamp. I have a residence permit and I had to show that for clearance.

The thing that strikes me most about the people who are interested in getting around the Schengen limitation is their basic lack of courage. People go to Las Vegas to gamble. The odds issue doesn't deter them. Similar for playing the check-for-overstay game. I'm not even interested in discouraging anyone from trying. I do think they're very silly in trying to reassure themselves with phony odds issues.

2

I'm not going to say "Don't do it". What I will say is that most forum members would not overstay and people who may have posted on TT before probably would not post again about being caught.
I remember there were a few posts, probably still in the archive but they'd be pre 2011 I imagine.
Here is a post on the subject from 2011:
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=2002536

I quote it because it contains the statement (2nd page):
Post # 27 (excerpt):
"I plan to return to Europe in 4 weeks and stay for a year. I inferred that if you enter and leave by different countries, you might avoid being caught overstaying in the Schengen area. I have a rather thick passport and will enter and leave the Schengen area every couple of months anyway. Perhaps I will slip though the cracks.

I suspect that implementation of the new SIS II scheduled for 2013 might catch this sort of behavior."

---

Here are the pertinent details about the Schengen information system:

http://soderkoping.org.ua/page18216.html

It's a fair bit of reading but important.

Forum members: I'm going to post this info as a separate thread.

3

My experience as a tour guide taking US tourists from France to the UK:
One member of the group had been in Schengen for more than 90 days.
The British immigration officer checked every passport, did the maths for every passport and didn't allow her to enter the UK, saying she had overstayed Schengen, so she had no respect for the law in another country and also would have no respect for the law in the UK.

4

Forum members: I'm going to post this info as a separate thread.
I may do this at a later time, have done more research, not finished or maybe finished.
sfgirl

5

When did you travel: Late December 2012

What was your entry point and exit point in the Schengen zone: Amsterdam Schiphol Airport

What happened when you crossed the border out of the Schengen zone: my passport was checked and swiped; while I was standing in line, a family at the next counter - I couldn't make out their nationality from the cover of their passports, but they certainly were not holding EU passports - were taken apart for questioning because they seemed to be unable to prove how long they had been in the Netherlands

What penalties did you receive for over staying your visa (I am particularly interested in this one): none

I just want to know what happens so that I can make other people aware of this
Here lies the problem: there is no "what happens", only "what can happen". As far as I know, immigration does not have a "menu" of penalties to be applied to overstaying, and in reality it is up to the discretion of the immigration officer how an overstayer is dealt with.
Some people reportedly get away without their overstay even being noticed, or they receive just a verbal warning. Others receive a fine - which can reportedly range from a few hundred to over a thousand euros - and/or a stamp in their passport, banning them from the Schengen Area for a number of years. It is also not unthinkable that overstayers are held for questioning so long that they end up missing their flight; in that case it is up to the airline to decide if they accept a free re-booking onto the next flight (not likely when the passenger has a cheap, non-changeable ticket and missed his flight because of his own fault).
Apart from that, insurance policies tend to strictly forbid participating in illegal activities; this means you are probably not covered while overstaying.

6

I have the impression that the people who ask this question most often are from either the US or Australia. Perhaps when you've finished your researches on Schengen you could do something similar for people who overstay in US / Oz too?

Edited by: mike9

7

Thanks for the info so far everyone! I want to be a travel writer so getting banned from essentially all of Western Europe is not on my list of things to do!

It really bugs me that everything is up to the discretion of whoever you get at the boarder because it means that people can't research their options properly and don't know what they are getting themselves into. It just doesn't make sense that there are no proper laws and guidelines!

I think a lot of backpackers assume that they can just go and travel until their money runs out - most probably don't even know that they are breaking the law until they stumble onto these forums. I talked to two travel agents and they didn't even know that these rules existed - would have happily sold me a ticket and told me to just have fun....

I really want to make a worthy article with this so the more posts the better!

P.S for overstaying in Australia, you will be deported (if you are found i.e. working illegally) or if it's at the boarder then I'm assuming that you get a 3-5 year ban (that's what I learnt from boarder security :P). Australia is crazy tough on boarder control so I really wouldn't mess with it and get all the correct documentation etc before setting off on any long journeys.

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How comes Alisa has a post count of -1??

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It just doesn't make sense that there are no proper laws and guidelines
Youre wrong, there are proper laws about Schengen area.
I think a lot of backpackers assume that they can just go and travel until their money runs out - most probably don't even know that they are breaking the law
First thing a traveller should do is to find out what documents is needed to travel to some country. And the wright place to ask is the embassy of that country NOT a travel agent!

10

I think something happened when I tried to reply last time... but yay for getting a -1!

akana - the only law that I have been able to find is 90/180: nothing about how the law is actually enforced. If you know where I can find the law so that I can abide by it then I am all ears!

As an Australian, we do not need any documentation to enter the Schengen zone. My point of entry into the Schengen zone is going to be Greece and I have emailed the embassy - he advised that I might get a fine if I overstay and that I should use Google....

My point about travel agents is that these people are supposed to be advisers and main points of contact to travellers; if even they haven't heard about this then what hope do inexperienced travellers have?

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OP:

If you're going to write, remember that the word for a national boundry is border. A boarder is one who receives food and lodging .
I think if you read all the links I provided you will know a great deal more of what those who oversee the Schengen rules have in mind. I didn't find any specific date when the new SIS II will be implemented but the target date is 2013.
From a quick parsing of the rest of the site, there is latitude in the enforcement of violations of the Schengen rules since each nation may have particular concerns or foci. The last country the traveller is in is the injured party, so it is their enforcement and their decision(s) as to what the penalties will be. I imagine each country ( once they have the ability to immediately determine the status of the traveller) will codify the penalties so it wouldn't be a judgement imposed by one individual in one place that may differ greatly from a judgement in a similar situation elsewhere.
I think it is the inability to immediately determine the traveller's status that has created the various responses.
With the new system, variables will probably be part of the codification of offenses. They know it is in their best interests to have something that 'makes sense'.

Since our freely given posts are presented by TT/LP under their copyright, should you use any of my text directly, please give credit to TT/LP. Thank you.

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it means that people can't research their options properly
I don't understand what you mean. Of course people can research their options, as there are only two:
1. Make sure you don't spend more than 90 days per 180-day period in the Schengen Area
2. Take your chances and ignore the 90/180 day restriction at your own peril

It just doesn't make sense that there are no proper laws and guidelines!
There are proper laws and guidelines. The problem is that some travellers apparently refuse to accept those laws and guidelines. It puzzles me how often travellers on this forum think they have the right to be informed in advance of the possible consequences of breaking the law; apparently it is too hard for them to understand that laws don't work that way - you either respect it or you don't, and in the latter case you may or may not be penalised. Sorry, but it's silly to assume travellers should have the right to be informed in advance that an overstay of X days results in a penalty of X euros plus a x-year ban, while an overstay of Y days results in no penalty but a higher fine, or whatever.

Also note my point about insurance coverage, or rather the lack of it, for illegal aliens. Imagine yourself staying illegally and (God forbid) being involved in a traffic accident. Normally speaking your insurance company would cover the costs for your hospitalisation and any damage to other person's physical and mental health and/or properties. Hospitals won't refuse you any treatment, as that's against a doctor's ethical code; however, who do you think will end up paying if your insurance company doesn't? Right - the local tax payer or, in case a third party is involved, that person's insurance company. I know, the likelihood of that happening is extremely low, but it is not unheard of and it is a reality that emergency treatment to illegal aliens is a costly affair for hospitals.

I think a lot of backpackers assume that they can just go and travel until their money runs out
That's their problem then. Ignorance is not an excuse to break the law, and that applies to any law.

I talked to two travel agents and they didn't even know that these rules existed
and
My point about travel agents is that these people are supposed to be advisers and main points of contact to travellers; if even they haven't heard about this then what hope do inexperienced travellers have?
Based on 8 years of TT experience, I can say that the knowledge of visa regulations of travel agents in Australia is questionable at best. It's a bloody shame these people are actually allowed to deal with customers, since they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
On the other hand, travel agencies are quite smart - check the small print of their T&Cs and you'll invariably find a clause declaring that it is their customer, not themselves, who is responsible for checking the latest visa requirements.

I really want to make a worthy article with this so the more posts the better!
As a non-native speaker I don't like to comment on the English of other posters, but isn't "boarder" misspelled? If it is, please run a spellcheck before you publish any article - proper spelling will certainly contibute positively to your credibility.

Edited by: Aribo

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re #7

There is something wrong with your thinking here.

First, as said, the specific visa (and/or visa exemption) conditions are almost invariably crystal clear. Researching options is rarely if ever a problem. 90/180 days, period. Plan around this rule (for example) and you have no problems at first step.

What it looks like to me is that you're fishing around for exactly what you say you're not doing .. those grey areas which lets you get away with something. Thus, your questions about how the rule is enforced. But rule enforcement is entirely separate from the rule as such. I have little doubt that no Immigration dept anywhere is going to be fully forthright about their procedures.

There is a second discretionary issue that no country will ever relinquish, and that is the power of any immigration officer to deny entry even if the person has a visa. The reason is that the officer at the border check is in the best position to identify irregularities (suspicious behavior) that would never be visible on a visa application form. The easy solution for this issue: do not do anything illegal. That's it.

I'm not taking a moral stand. I'm simply pointing out that the rules are clear. I've been dealing with various visa categories on 6 continents for 40 years. Learn what they are, live and plan within them, and your own difficulties are minimized.

Being 'bugged' by this misses the point that the procedures aren't there for your convenience.

If you want to try and cut corners or hope that wandering around in ignorance of immigration protocol will cut you some slack, forget it. Pleading ignorance is a guarantee you will get a hard time.

I have been watching a very informative TV program .. Border Security .. this one in Australia and is a variant of reality TV shows in this theme that I've seen in a number of countries. When you witness for the nth time a drug smuggler who denies everything blabla, and then after a body search AUS$300,000 worth of drugs is found in the person's stomach, you'll appreciate why Immigration officers have discretion, and why they're not interested in excuses and pleas of ignorance.

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Aribo -- spellcheck only checks that the word exists. Boarder being a real word, it would not be picked up. However, I agree that anyone who plans to be a writer should learn to spell. As should anyone else, in fact.

OP -- don't base yourself on Australian travel agents' knowledge of visa requirements. As said above, they seem particularly incompetent about the Schengen rules. Do they not have to have any qualifications to set up as travel agents?

This does not excuse a tourist's obligation to find out for him/herself.

As for personal experience of crossing Schengen borders, we crossed from Ukraine to Poland in 2009 and the immigration officer picked up all the passports/work permits, etc. And she studied everyone very carefully before handing them back. My husband had grown a beard since his passport picture was taken and she spent extra time staring at him, even though we have French passports.

It leads me to believe that countries on the borders of Schengen are quite strict about controls.