1

Not the same route- but I will be going Vladivostok to Moscow in a few months.

I did think about Beijing -Moscow but thought that the proper train trip was from Vladivostok!

Part of the reason for choosing Vlad to Moscow is that I dont have to buy train tickets from China to Russia- instead I am only buying Russian train tickets for the whole journey- and flying Beijing-Vlad on Air Siberia- very cheap!

This means I can cash in the e-ticket at Vlad train station for the whole journey- hassle free.

I am using Real Russia!

2

Having done just the 3o hrs from UB to Beijing last October:

Get 2 lowers bunks in a soft sleeper in the middle of the carriage. I have shared it with a lovely Mongolian couple.

UB has quite q few Monasteries and museums worth seeing.

There are nature reserves, like the http://hustai.mn/?alang=2 at abt 80 km from UB. where the przewalski horses roam free.

Kharakorin is further a field.

Spartan is a relative term ...

If you know your apprx dates- I would advise visas at home- less hassle .

You need time for Mongolia- it is a shame just riding through it.

3

http://www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian.htm#.UOmC5Kzhcyk

http://www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian.htm#Trans-Siberian_route_map

Good info in the above. I've done Beijing to Irkutsk, and Bratsk to Vladivostok in 2007. You will need to book tickets Beijing > UB well in advance for July as there are only a couple of trains a week. They stop at Erlian on the border for a couple of hours. Good place to stock up on fruit snacks drinks and chocolate. UB is worth a couple of days & try to get out to Turtle Rock in Terlelj NP. The bus leaves UB at 11 am & returns from Terelj at 8 am. Only costs a dollar or 2 each way. Mirage guesthouse was great. For the Russian sector tickets I just enquired at the train station a day or 2 before departure. I bought tickets for the Beijing UB sector at Bill Wang Ease of Travel in Chongwengmen after emailing him from Seoul. Legend Tour sold tickets to Irkutsk. Not sure if they're still running?

4

Hey Sheik

I'm leaving for the reverse trip (St. Petersburg - UB) in about 45 days... I'd be happy to through you some information while I'm there... But I can give you a few tips from my current research... Gussing your gonna travel in July since you want to catch the Naadam...

You apparently cannot get a ticket for the whole trip WHILE jumping on and off... So you need to buy tickets for each of the stretches you want to do.. Which means that you either need to plan very detailed ahead or be flexible about your stops (since you might be stuck somewhere for an extra day)... It's cheaper, but more of a hassle to book while you are there, even though the tickets between Beijing and UB is necessary in summer...

First class on most trains are a two bed compartment, which shares a bathroom with another two bed compartment... That should be your first choice for privacy... Second class is 4-beds, but a really awesome for meeting locals... There's not bath on second class...

Only neat places between the two capitals should be Dàtóng in China with some caves and Sainshand in Mongolia from where you can explore the Gobi Dessert and Monasteries in a hired 4x4... As the caves might be an issue I would stop in Sainshand....
There isn't really much to stop for along the tracks in Mongolia, but you're able to reach some national parks from UB... Trips to Genghis Khans birthplace will be a multi-day trip, but you should be able to spend a few days in UB.. The Museum on Natural History should be amazing!

The Naadam opening and closing ceremonies are a must from what I read.... The horse races are outside town, and you typically just stay at the goal line.. That can be skipped... Booking accommodation ahead here is clearly also a must...

You ALSO need a visa for Russia, which is ESSENTIAL that you arrange this from home!
When I visited China three years ago (I'm Danish, btw.) I had to arrange the visa from home as well... I'm pretty sure that's still necessary for Australians as well... I would be better safe that sorry and get if from home...
The Mongolian Embassy can arrange visas in five days for 45 USD - pay the double for a same day visa...

Hope you got some useful answers... If I remember, I'll try to get back to you when I'm on the rail...

Cheers

5

I did Beijing to UB last October. as I recall, there is only 1 stop between Beijing and Erlian (Where you HAVE to get off, on the Mongolian border) and I assume, therefore, that it must be possible to get on and off there but I'm not sure that you are actually able to buy tickets from Datong (The China Train Schedule doesn't list any other prices than beijing - UB) so you may have to pay a full price fair. Best to ask CITS about this. That is where you HAVE to buy your ticket from in Beijing and I know that there is a CITS office just outside of Datong station so.... Maybe.

Datong has a few things to see (Hanging Temple Yungang Grottoes, etc) so you could spend a day or 2 there (Just don't expect TOO much).

The train is run by Mongolian rail and has 2 classes of bunk. Hard sleeper (4 bunks with a door) and Soft Sleeper (2 bunk private room with easy-chair and private toilet).

I was in UB in October and getting accomodation was an issue (Up-market accomodation was pretty widely available though). I enjoyed UB a lot and will certainly return.

Getting a Mongolian visa in China is a breeze.

6

Forgot to mention. Getting onward tickets at UB station to Moscow appeared to be very straight-forward and easy and would be considerably cheaper than buying through-tickets in China where you'll have to pay a whacking great commission to CITS.

7

you will also need a visa for russia which is a bit more troublesome to obtain compared to visas for mongolia & china. i did this trip in the reverse direction. i got off at 2 stops: irkutsk and ub. you should complete your sightseeing before commencing the train journey from beijing to ub. it will be easier on the logistics (the train stops at datong at some ungodly hour & when you get on again it will be at that ungodly hour). as your wife has mobility issues, it would be best to complete the train journey with fewer stops. once you are in russia, it will be easier to stop at various cities/towns. i would recommend doing day trips once you arrive in moscow rather getting on and off (for places doable within a day from moscow) man in seat 61 can guide you through the entire process and answers to most of your questions can be found there.

8

Thank-you for the info thus far, looks like "Ask_G" is going to have some very handy info very soon, will be invaluable in the bigger picture.

Just so you all know, the plan was to travel like this :

Beijing - Ulan Bataar - Ulan Ude - Irkutsk - Ekaterinburg - Moscow - St Petersburg

If it works out to more beneficial to do it reverse, then we'll certainly go that way.

9

#7

the train stops at datong at some ungodly hour & when you get on again it will be at that ungodly hour

The train K3 from Beijing to UB arrives in Datong at about 1:51pm and leavesd at 2:15pm. The train K4 from UB to Beijing gets to Datong at about 8am and leaves at 8:11am. You must be a "night person". Are you a vampire perchance?

Furthermore, if these times don't suit, there's is nothing to stop you getting an ordinary Chinese train from Beijing to Datong that will arrive at a more suitable time for the undead (If, that is, it's possible to actually board this train at Datong. I can only assume that it is).

10

Tickets for the first segment from Beijing to UB (or wherever) muast be purchased through a travel agency. Cost will depend upon the day of the week that you travel and the class of travel. Private compartments for two are expensive. Check with CITS.net or Ocean Travel as they are generally the most competitive. The direct train only operates two to three times a week. It is much cheaper to travel in pieces but with someone who is disabled this may not be recommended depending upon the disability.

There are other cities in China and Mongolia worth visiting but nothing on the route from Beijing to UB. See below for another thought though.

I haven't been to Nadaam which is July 11-13 but unless sports events are of interest to you, I would avoid that time and use UB as a base to visit other parts of Mongolia. One possibility is to arrange to visit the Gobi desert from Sainshand and then head from there to UB via jeep. This might not be recommended depending upon the handicap of your spouse as the jeep rides are long and bumpy.

(d) I realise that facilities & infrastructure for travellers in Mongolia is a little "spartan" once you leave UB but surely there is another city of note worth visiting once there ?? Again, would prefer if it was somewhere along the train line too.
Sorry but there are NO cities of note along the train route.

(e) Visas are needed for both China & Mongolia and depending on what you read or who you talk to, it is mixed opinion as to whether you should get one prior to leaving home or save the hassle and get one on arrival. Anyone got a view on how that is best handled ??
You cannot get either a Chinese or Mongolian visa on arrival. When asking visa questions it is useful to indicate your passport. Assuming you are Australian, you MUST apply for the chinese visa at home and you will need to show an itinerary with transportation into and out of the country to get the visa. The Mongolian visa can be applied for in Beijing or at the border town of Erlian. In Beijing the consulate is NOT open daily. I am not sure about in Erlian but in either case, there is NO reason not to obtain both visas in advance.

I recommend that this trip take 6 weeks and that you spend about 5 days in Beijing assuming that you haven't been there previously, 7-9 days in Mongolia (including transport into and out of the country) and the remainder in Russia. In Russia I usually suggest that you figure that the train will take you 5 days and that the remaining 25 days be divided between places like Ulan Ude, Irkutsk and lake Baikal, at least one night in at least one other city between Irkutsk and Moscow, 5 days in Moscow and the surrounding area (perhaps 1-2 nights in Suzdal) and 5 days in St. Petersburg.

Ruth

11

Great reply Ruth, thank-you, great help !!

I should point out that my wife can get around okay with her stick, she just can't walk for long distances as her bad leg starts to swell and gives her a heap of pain. Therefore, things like action sports (ie. rock-climbing or trekking into caves) are sadly off the market for us.

12

Ruth gave me good advice, too. Also much appreciated. I'd disagree there is nothing much to see in UB:

http://www.treklens.com/members/chrisJ/photos/Asia/Mongolia/East/Ulaanbaatar/

http://www.trekearth.com/members/ChrisJ/photos/Asia/Mongolia/East/Ulaanbaatar/

Turtle Rock Terelj: http://www.treklens.com/viewphotos.php?l=7&p=328035

Wikitravel is also a good source. They state that the Beijing UB train only runs on Tuesdays, once a week. "Trains from Beijing run once a week (on Tuesdays) and seats can only be reserved at the International Hotel in Beijing (a ten minute walk north of the main Beijing rail station)." In July they probably put an extra train on but I have no idea what day. I was able to prebook train tickets with Ocean Travel (Bill Wang / Ease Travel)

http://wikitravel.org/en/Ulaanbaatar

13

Would really love to do this route one day! Loving the links, and getting into a kind of "when might we have time" mode.

14

Couldn't believe my luck.

Went into a second-hand bookstore the other night and found a 2006 copy of Lonely Planet's 'Trans Siberian Railway' guidebook for $7.50.

Admittedly its a little old (probably two editions ago) but the basic info it contains is very useful.