Welcome back to Thorn Tree
Replies: 1,407 - Last Post: Oct 22, 2013 3:16 AM Last Post By: Zabba
Jan 11, 2013 4:46 PM
405JJack I cant figure out why my post count is still original prior to meltdown. That said, I wish they would trip it back 15,000 so some people dont think I am a always posting non stop. I still cant access all my trip reports (19) for 11 countries, and also what really gripes me, more than anything, is the fact Lp has just cast the regulars aside like were not important, for the various forums, for gods sake, you know how many PM's I had a month just for Central America and SE Asia alone?
But, remember the revamp of the website on 2009 had all of us in a tizzy, but this is just plain rude IMO. I think the Mods cant respond either, their hands are tied as well, Its is a mess, when the dust settles, it will be interesting to see who is still here.
BTW- iI you Google, BBC Lonely Planet ThornTree, you get some interesting links/articles and opinions...
Jan 11, 2013 4:52 PM
406I've lost 11,000-anything that was in YC or WT
bloody hell you had a lot of posts didn't you!
None of my posts were from those branches (well I did stick my head in the YC branch once or twice but was quickly frightened off by the horrorshow I saw there) so it seems a bit harsh to remove 90% of my posts. Some of them were downright inspirational, as you well know...
Jan 11, 2013 4:55 PM
407As someone who checked in most days either to plan a trip, give info, or get a travel fix, I find the continued disruption of the forum leaves me adrift. It would be most respectful of your regulars if you posted each day in a prominent place just where you are in your reconstruction of the site. Repetition of "we're working as hard as we can" themes is not reassuring and quite condescending, in fact. Now certainly techies will not be able to say with any certainty what will happen on a given day, but even some information -such as, "we expect that the Older" group will be back on line within the week - will reduce the frustration everyone is expressing. We all should not be trying to pry information from you, you should in true public relations fashion be reaching out to us with as much as you can share, including your thoughts about the redesign of the board.
Jan 11, 2013 5:28 PM
408Yes TT was a travel forum but it was so much more than that. What isnt being appreciated now is that it was a community, or rather a group of communities, that helped each other through our darkest times and celebrated the good times. It was the communities that kept people on the tree and with lp, especially when they werent travelling. The members of these communities, many of whom have been with tt since the 1990s or early 2000s were some of the most experienced and extensively travelled people on the tree. It was the community that kept us there and while we were there we also gave travel advice. There are other, now possibly better places to get travel advice. The communities were the heart and soul of the tree.
Jan 11, 2013 6:08 PM
409Before I delete txgirl forever from the Tree (I didn't really use this place for travel advice....), I just want to say how sad I am to have to say goodbye to this place. I knew WT was bound to die some time, but that doesn't make it any easier.
Thank you women of WT (and the few men :)) for the laughs, the ear, the advice, the full-on catfights and for the online friendship - it was a great 10 years :) It won't be the same but I hope I will see you guys on other sites. If not, much love and happiness to you.
Jan 11, 2013 6:34 PM
410RE# JAKARTABOY -
quote - "Hmmm .... My bet is that the forum has pretty close to zero impact on the bottom line when it comes to sales from books. I frankly admit that I haven't "
# 305 - But the website is not just about guidebooks there is various advertising . The idea of a website is to have as much traffic as possible . TT contributed to the traffic.
RE# 375 - LAKEWOBEGONE.
Yes its a business enterprise , but you need to be reminded that previously on various occaisions LP staff stated that Thorn Tree would be modelled around what users wanted . At the time the current parent company took over and a new TT model was intoduced users were told not to worry there was just going to be some advertising to pay the bills and it was suggested the new owner would respect the independence of the forum.
Some posters remind that 'Nothing lasts forever' . Some equally applicable sayings are -
'If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It ! ' and 'The Cure Is Worse Than The Disease'.
Jan 11, 2013 7:25 PM
Jan 11, 2013 8:01 PM
412You probably don't remember me, but at age 76 I have been the 'Matriarch' of the Thorn Tree Women Travellers since 2001. I am deeply hurt that you have trashed this chat page. The wonderful friends that I have made on this page are legend. I have visited them around the world. I have been one of Lonely Planet's 'ambassadors' even though you won't know that. I have supported your books for as long as they've been around and even written for your book "Backpacking around Europe." I have a picture and a 'postcard' in the "Asia" book. I know that some posters get a bit heated from time to time, but all I wish to say to you is "get a life". Lonely Planet has just lost a large number of dedicated supporters, myself included.
Jan 11, 2013 8:16 PM
413I feel like I've lost a good friend. I've been posting since Jane@LP was running the show. I posted mostly on the Mexico branch and YC from time to time. It was nice to talk to people from all over the world about what interested them and me. If anyone knows of an alternate site, please let me know about it. keith
Jan 11, 2013 8:27 PM
414On travelfish they are launching an entire East Asia wing a South Asia wing and Australia New Zealand ...it's starting at ground floor as we speak...the forum boards cover ever single bit of what is covered here and is filled with many many of the same members from here...It looks like in a small part...They are at least preparing to take
in refugees and I think it's a great opportunity to build from the ground up...
In the last few days I have looked, I have found it a very rich and vibrant forum.
I highly suggest giving it a look over and see for yourself...I actually like it a lot.
Jan 11, 2013 9:17 PM
Jan 11, 2013 9:27 PM
416LP didn't want a travel forum, they wanted a community. The BBC wants a travel forum, not a community.
I've been here since 96, I've answered lots of queries, provided information and written for LP books, all for no fee.
However, travel has changed since I first came here. Pre internet you had to be smart and put in hard work to find out the information you needed for off the beaten track stuff.
Nowadays, if you look at any of the travel branches, pretty much everything is either an impossible itinery, a packing list or basic information that can be found in google.
I've posted some questions in some of the destination branches, admittedly on obscure places, but got no response. In the late 90s, I would have heard something.
This is the audience the BBC want, innocent newbies. The travellers of today, who must have everything planned, noted and organised. Hardly the spirit that created LP.
And we have this huge cock up, which will go down in the history of community management as a textbook case of how not to run a community.
The cluelessness of the approach is that we can find out more about what happened from Google. LP have told us nothing.
The irony is that the BBC Trust don't want LP.
It's H2G2 again.
Jan 11, 2013 10:24 PM
417Brussels, expect your post to be cut!
You are right, of course. It made me realise that something very similar has happened at my gym. I've been saying they don't value their customers and are catering to newbies and people who think 30 minutes of exercise is as effective as 60 minutes! (they've cut my classes to 30 minute classes).
Perhaps it's life in the 21st century.
And to all you naysayers of WT and YC and other branch communities, here a few positives (perhaps the mods can shove this under the nose of the execs in charge):
Marriages have occurred between posters
Bereaved posters have been supported
Divorced posters have been supported
New additions to families have been celebrated
Complete strangers have swapped gifts / food
Complete strangers have met, broken bread, drunk and been merry
Complete strangers have offered comfort in strange lands
Complete strangers have offered shelter in strange lands
Many, many friendships have formed between complete strangers
Many views have been swayed, changed and formed through contact with other ideas
Lonely, shy people can, and have, blossomed and formed friendships
and, while this was happening .... often helped other travellers
And you know what, we were quite capable of scrolling by if a thread wasn't to our taste.
Jan 12, 2013 12:09 AM
Jan 12, 2013 2:16 AM
419Well, now this has all sunk in a bit more for me, as the afterglow of my recent trip fades. I will try earnestly to avoid language that might creatively be spoken by a sailor (whatever the thingamadoodle that means), in expressing my distress. Incidentally, I trust we will be allowed a little more expressive leeway around September 19 of each year, which is after all International Talk Like a Pirate Day.
I believe that quite a large mistake is being made, and that if some of the planned changes are not undone, this thread may as well be retitled: "Welcome to Thorn Stump."
Plenty of productive members have been around a good deal longer than I have, and plenty of people with more useful information are comparative newcomers. This year is my tenth with this handle on TT, though I've used the site for rather longer; TT was the first www site I found (I used to use the various Usenet newsgroups, long ago) that offered reliable, recent information for less visited locales. FWIW, no one has ever complained about me as far as I am aware.
I used to check in daily when not traveling. A year or so ago I stopped contributing for various reasons, but last month I decided I'd been away long enough, and thought I'd come on back after my Cameroon trip. So now I feel like a protagonist who returns home only to find the place destroyed, or at least under some sort of existential threat. (TT4 was a comparative hiccup.)
Is it possible that the owners of this site will listen to reason? Doing away without warning with two "off-topic" branches--even though being "off-topic" was their stated purpose--and keeping even many of the travel branches offline for several weeks, will not encourage people to stay in this community. (Incidentally, though I never checked YC or WT, I know many regulars got a lot out of both for reasons already well expressed above.) These decisions are troubling enough.
It is of course the owners' right to make such decisions, as others have said, but it's our right to go ahead and leave a site we no longer feel any meaningful connection to. I think you can expect a lot of goodbyes from some of the regulars just because of WT and YC. Having checked "Who's On" a few times over the past two days, I can't recall ever having seen the level of activity around here at a lower ebb.
But beyond the panic attack of late December and the overreaction (IMHO) of entirely uprooting YC and WT, what seems to me to be by far the worst idea of this whole mess is that of pre-screening contributions. You're saying you don't trust your members in the first instance. You're straitjacketing the whole lot of us because of the actions of a few, easily avoided hotheads. By definition, you're negatively affecting the timeliness of replies on the site. And you're also increasing the amount of time it takes a contributor to help out; if I need to wait around to see whether some bluenose has decided my content is appropriate before I can move on, that adds to my time commitment.
I really hope all of these "decisions" can be rolled back, but the notion of pre-screening posts seems especially toxic to the sort of community this always has been. So in a word, my advice is: avast! Thanks for listening.
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