1

I would do Hakone & Yokohama/Kamakura as daytrips from Tokyo & not activate the JR Pass until you are ready for the Tokyo > Kyoto bullet train.

I went Tokyo > Nikko > Tokyo > Hakone > Odawara then caught an express bullet train to Kyoto & did Nara. You would be better off doing Nara from Kyoto (1 hour by train) rather than backtracking from Hiroshima. Miyajima is missing and well worth a 1/2 day when in Hiroshima. Again Hakone is near Tokyo so it makes sense to do that when in or near Tokyo NOT Kyoto.

In 9 days on my first trip to Japan I caught the Seoul ktx to Busan, a ferry to Fukuoka, train to Nagasaki, train N'saki to Hiroshima, Hiroshima Fuji Go Ko (Fuji Yoshida/Kawaguchiko) > Tokyo (daytrip to Kamakura) > Miyajima > Kyoto > Fukuoka & back to Seoul. Sure it was rushed, but I saw a lot and did not regret it for a moment. Missed Nikko & Nara but went back & did them last year. Well worth seeing. The bullet trains are fantastic and zip you around Japan quickly.

2

What exact date do you arrive at Narita? What time?

You do realise it will take around four hours from Narita to Kyoto?


That is relatively true but I'm not sure I would head straight to Kyoto. Depends what date you arrive.

That's fine.


Yokohama is probably best for Chinese New Year.

Usually you are best transferring from the Narita Express to an Hikari Shinkansen at Shinagawa Station. Depends a little on date and time though.


Which hotel?


Seems alright depending on what time you arrive. Don't underestimate the time taken to get to places in Kyoto especially if you plan to use the buses. Kinkakuji is around 40 minutes by bus from Kyoto Station as an example.

Note that you can either take the tram (not covered by JR Pass) back to Hiroshima and then take the train to Miyajimaguchi or you can take the tram all the way. Neither option is quick.

Also check Itsukushima tide times (link at the bottom) as you may wish to see it at high tide:-
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3450.html


This will be a relatively long day. I'd have dinner in Hiroshima and get a late Shinkansen back to Shin-Osaka/Kyoto.

In general I would go to Dotonbori/Shinsaibashi at night. This is obviously a long day.


Where do you plan on staying?

Note that it is often best/easiest to take the Shinkasen from Kyoto to Mishima and then purchase the Hakone Free Pass there (3900 yen) and use it to do the above.

Which hotel?


What day of the week is this?

Seems a bit awkward to combine the two this way but I guess it is possible. Is this Sunday Feb 10? If that's the case I'd move Nikko to Day 9 (or maybe Day 7) and see Meiji Jingu/Harajuku/Yoyogi Park on Sunday (Day 8)

Seems fine, unless you move Nikko here. If you do it will be outside JR Pass but one of the Tobu Nikko Passes are economical and will suit.

I would not combine the two. Pick one.

What time is your flight?


It is a very fast pace and probably too fast for most people. It would be alright for me.

If I guess dates correctly you arrive on Monday the 4th of Feb? I'd probably just spend the first night in Tokyo and see some of Tokyo that day, then catch an early Shinkansen on Day 3 to Kyoto but it depends what time your plane arrives and how you will cope with the flight.


Good useful list here:-
http://whereintokyo.com/dbinx/club.html

List of Gigs/DJs
http://www.tokyogigguide.com/

Do some google searches or ask back here once you have chosen a club or two if you have specific questions.

3

Backtrack from the Chinese New Year (day 8 = Sunday, Feb. 10).

4

1,100 wild deer sound interesting. But made me queasy. But that temple is great.

I would call the Tokyo Fish Market a must see.

5

We will be arriving on Monday 4th Feb around 7.40am at Narita. We will be departuring Narita around 9pm on the 13th Feb. With these times, we thought it will be alright to try to catch as much sightseeing as possible. Ahhhh i guess it really is too much:( We want to do Hakone on the way back from Kyoto to Tokyo but I guess it'll be better to do it from Tokyo...too much time wasted I guess. We haven't got accomodation yet as of this moment, but we will by the end of this week. We are on a budget so we are looking towards hostels at this moment for Kyoto and Tokyo and splurge a little on a nice ryokan for the one night in Hakone.

6

So you should be able to get to Kyoto and at least do something in the afternoon.


You can as long as you like a fast pace and plan your transportation in advance.


Not really.


?? You can do Hakone on the way back from Kyoto. It is not better to do from Tokyo if you plan to stay overnight in Hakone.


Sounds fine.

7

"?? You can do Hakone on the way back from Kyoto. It is not better to do from Tokyo if you plan to stay overnight in Hakone."

Disagree. The bullet train stations for Fuji Go Ko & Hakone are Shin Fuji & Odawara. The bus from Shin Fuji is infrequent & I ended up waiting 2 hours. Likewise if you depart Kyoto early morning you will be staggering around in the dark trying to find accomodation. I know for a fact that the Moto Hakone hostel was closed when I was there in February last year. I ended up having to wait 30 mins for a bus back to Miyanoshita. You also have to change trains at Odawara for the Hakone Yumoto local train which does not run all that frequently either. Had to catch a bus from Hakone Yumoto to Moto Hakone and waited an hour. Oh and the latter train is behind the stairs when you go down to the platform. I was expecting to see it on the right but you have to go back behind the stairs.

This could all be avoided by getting a bus from Shinjuku in Tokyo, or making an early start from Tokyo for the train train bus connection.

The Fuji Hakone Guest house in Hakone was great, but you should book ahead. They put me in a spare room, as all other rooms were full. It's close to the bus stop & a Lawson's convenience store.

http://www.booking.com/hotel/jp/fuji-hakone-guest-house.en.html?aid=311984;label=fuji-hakone-guest-house-n20So7wQh1Uz_8s5OC*lIwS11220977713:pl:ta:p1:p2:ac:ap1t1:neg;ws=&gclid=CMDm3Kv4hrQCFYhfpQodS3MAtA

Also is there any reason you must depart Narita? It's a tired & run down airport 2 hours from Tokyo. I departed from Nagoya Centrair airport which is modern, less crowded & more efficient. You could also look at departing Osaka, with an open jaws ticket, to save time & money backtracking.

8

No they aren't. Sgp2103 isn't going to Fujigoko so that isn't relevant. For Hakone you can either access it from Odawara, or from Mishima Station, or Atami Station. I'd suggest Mishima but it depends where your accommodation is.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5206.html?aFROM=2158_5200


No need to go to Shin Fuji. If you plan ahead you can get the bus timetables from Mishima or Odawara, although the train from Odawara makes more sense than a bus.


Why? There is plenty of time to do the whole Hakone Round Course in one day if you leave Kyoto in the morning. Depending on where their ryokan is it should obviously be easy to do half/part of the round course in one day.

Hakone Round Course:-
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5210.html


They are looking to "splurge a little on a nice ryokan for the one night in Hakone" so who cares if it is/was closed.


Sorry to hear.


There are more than 80 trains per day for that journey. Hardly infrequent.
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/intervaltime.html?dep_node=ODAWARA&arv_node=HAKONEYUMOTO&search_target=intervaltime&diagram=65761&year=2012&month=12&day=7&searchday=20121207


The bus timetables are published so with a bit of planning it would have been easy to organise.


Sounds like you were unaware of the options more than anything.

Obviously Mishima and Odawara are between Kyoto and Tokyo so of course it is more efficient and time saving to see Hakone on the way from Kyoto to Tokyo, instead of going all the way to Shinjuku and then all the way back to Odawara.


Like was mentioned, they are looking at a ryokan.


Many people don't have an option. For me there are no direct flights to Haneda.


No. It is 40 minutes on the Keisei Skyliner, 60 minutes on the Narita Express.


For you it might be, for some people (most people) Nagoya is in an awkward place for planning a trip to Japan. Also, no airlines serve it directly from where I live.


Except sometimes open jaws are more expensive.

9

I did NOT have to pay any extra airfare departing from Nagoya. And OSAKA certainly has many international flights.

Odawara is the only rail access point to Hakone on the Tokyo Kyoto shinkansen line. Mishima & and Atami are both in Shizuoka which is nowhere near Hakone. That map is extremely misleading. Makes them look close when in fact they are hundreds of km away. In any case, you have to change to buses in both Mishima & Atami to get to Hakone Machi.

"There is plenty of time to do the whole Hakone Round Course in one day if you leave Kyoto in the morning."

Disagree. I left Nikko early morning (much much closer than Kyoto) and was still looking for accomodation in Hakone at 9 pm at night. I also used express trains too via Utsunomiya. There is no way you are going to have time to get from Kyoto to Odawara to Hakone, AND do the full cable car circuit to Owakudani in daylight hours.

The train I took from Narita to Tokyo Station took 2 hours. And you need to check ahead if all sections of the circuit chairlifts at Hakone are open. One section was closed for maintenance when I was there and I had to return the same way I came. The Owakudani to Sounzan section was closed on the day I visited), The cablecar starts at Togendai-Ko on the northern lake shore of Lake Ashi, & connects up with the Hakone Tozan Cablecar... when all sections are open.

If the OP wants to cruise on Lake Ashi, the pirate boats depart from Moto Hakone. The only hostel there was closed. This from Wikitravel:

"Note that if you have a reservation at a ryokan in Hakone, unless your plane lands in the morning, it is recommended that you spend your first evening in Tokyo or Yokohama, or else you might miss out on (and be charged for) dinner at the ryokan, or worse, you may be locked out of (and be charged for) your room at the ryokan's curfew time, if there is one.

Allow about 2 1/2 to 3 hours to reach Hakone from Narita Airport by train, and about 1 1/2 to 2 hours from Haneda Airport."

http://wikitravel.org/en/Hakone

http://wikitravel.org/en/Hakone#Sleep

10

"The bus timetables are published so with a bit of planning it would have been easy to organise."

Um, no! If the arriving train from Odawara & departing bus for Moto Hakone are not coordinated, then no amount of planning will achieve anything. Might be useful to provide a bus timetable link though. Published where? Name of the bus company?

Obviously Mishima and Odawara are between Kyoto and Tokyo so of course it is more efficient and time saving to see Hakone on the way from Kyoto to Tokyo, instead of going all the way to Shinjuku and then all the way back to Odawara.

I was suggesting Narita > Shinjuku (bus) > Hakone or Tokyo > Odawara (train) > Hakone ; NOT Kyoto > Tokyo / Shinjuku > Odawara > Hakone.

11

That's nice. Doesn't mean the same applies from other countries.


I disagree.


No, it isn't.


The bus from Mishima to Moto-Hakone takes 50 minutes.


Sure, and if you wish to get to Hakone Machi from Odawara...?


I've personally done it on multiple occasions.


Nikko to Odawara usually takes 150 minutes or so.

Kyoto to Odawara with a JR Pass is 170 minutes.
Kyoto to Mishima with a JR Pass is 130 minutes if you take the direct Hikari.


If you leave early you can get to Mishima by 9:17am, or Odawara by 9:31am. That's plenty of time to do the entire round course, let alone just half of it (or whatever portion) is required to make it to the ryokan.


That doesn't mean that's the only option, surely! Do you agree there are quicker options, like the ones I mentioned?


They depart from multiple places, including obviously Hakone-Machi, Moto Hakone, and Togendai.


What does that have to do with anything? They are talking about if you arrive at Narita in the late afternoon then it is difficult to make your ryokan by 6pm. It really is not relevant at all.


Sure, so what? Sgp2103 is travelling from Kyoto in the morning.

12

Seems to me "acc" above is just being contrary for the sake of being contrary. Do NOT attempt to do a full day's sightseeing at Hakone from Kyoto, AND find a suitable ryokan in time for the evening meal and overnight accomodation. As mentioned in Wikitravel above, you pay for the ryokan meal & room, even if you don't make it back from sightseeing in time for the curfew. If 'acc' thinks that's irrelevant, too bad. You have much more wiggle room from Tokyo, than from Kyoto. Nara is best done from Kyoto too, not fromTokyo or Hiroshima.

13

I'm the contrary one?!?

Apologies to sgp2103 for taking up so much of the thread, hopefully it is somewhat useful at least.


Why do you think this is not possible? Who says anything about finding a ryokan? Most people would book one well in advance. That's half the reason why I asked which hotel/ryokan so we can work out what is the best method to get there and how much of the round course can be/should be done on that first day in Hakone.


I'm sure with eight hours between 9:30am and 5:30pm they can fit a lot in before they have to be at the ryokan. Do you agree or not?


I don't think that's irrelevant at all. I think quoting something from wikitravel regarding landing at the airport in the afternoon is irrelevant.


Obviously. That doesn't make it more efficient in terms of the overall holiday though.


You don't say.

14

"Why do you think this is not possible?"

All it takes is one missed bus or train connection between Kyoto & Odawara/Hakone, or a late bus, cable car closure (happened to me), or missed pirate boat on Lake Ashi, and the whole day is thrown into disarray. It's possible, but far more risky than Tokyo > Hakone, especially for a first time visitor, who is not familiar with local timetables / geography, possibly speaks little or no Japanese, & has never been to Japan before.

"only 1 of us have been to Japan before and it was years ago"

It makes a lot more sense to do Hakone when the OP is in Tokyo, NOT from Kyoto.

Still waiting on the bus timetable link to Hakone from the train terminus. From memory it was something like 2a or 2d. It might be an idea to name the bus company too, so the OP can look it up themselves, if the link is too hard to find.