basic schengen question
Replies: 8 - Last Post: Nov 23, 2012 8:29 AM Last Post By: Minimi
Nov 22, 2012 2:21 PM
basic schengen questionI've seen this covered in quite a few threads, but there are always contradictory claims within the threads.
From an official communique for Schengen countries:
relevant to the visa free travel:
"a travel visa valid for one or more entries, provided that neither the length of a continuous visit nor the total length of successive visits exceeds three months in any half-year, from the date of first entry,"
I am not seeing in this language any prohibition of staying for more than 90 days IF you did not use up your whole 90 days beginning with your first entry. In other words, If I go to France for a month and then return to the states, then I could return to France two months before 180 days from my first entry and stay for 5 months (2 months which will bring me to the end of the 180 cycle and an additional 3 months bringing me to the end of the allowed amount (90 days) of the second cycle one.
If it were the case that you could not do more than 90 days at any given time, then wouldn't the final clause (bolded and underlined above) be omitted?
The language indicates that the date of first entry serves as a benchmark for the 180 period. Visits afterwards are successive visits, but do not start a new peg.
If someone has some official documentation shedding more light on this matter I would appreciate it.
Edited by: matlm
Nov 22, 2012 11:32 PM
1I think you're confusing visas with visa waivers. Which will you have?
Also bear in mind that the most conservative interpretation of the rules--the one that ensures you won't get into trouble--assumes that the clock does not "reset." Immigration and border officials are always looking at the last 180 days, and if you've spent more than 90 of them in Schengen, you've arguably over-stayed.
There was a recent thread from a traveler who had two nearly-consecutive visas to France I think it was. Even though the combined visas allowed for more than a 90-day window, this traveler still got a nasty black mark in his passport for spending more than 90 out of 180 days in Schengen (and had a third visa request denied). So some officials clearly interpret the rules as saying that the 90/180 day rule supercedes the window of time which visas allow for.
Any "official" documents you find will still have some wiggle room for interpretation by the people making decisions on the spot. Those people will always have the final say. And there's the rub.
Nov 23, 2012 12:40 AM
2Thanks, I have been finding some more useful information, but not seeing any consensus:
I understand that the official language i posted above has been superseded:
See post 6
"This agreement has since been superceded by Council regulation 562/2006 when the Schengen agreement became part of the European Union treaties. The new version reads (in article 5) :
"For stays not exceeding three months per six-month period, the entry conditions for third-country nationals shall be the following:"
This regulation no longer has a reference to the "first entry", which means that you now have a sliding scale, and you now have to look at he last 180 days."
Yet if this is how it works, then it seems like the case is if I do 90 consecutive days, I'd have to wait another 180 days to get another full consecutive 90 days, right? Because if I return on the 180th day from first entry, using a rolling scale would imply that within the last 180 days, I spent 90 days in the zone.
Yet this post (below), from someone who seems pretty reliable quotes a Dutch official as saying you only need 90 days out from your previous 90 day period.
So which is it (the conservative view) - When can I get another consecutive 90 days? 90 days after my first 90 days ends, or 180 days after it ends?
Nov 23, 2012 12:55 AM
Nov 23, 2012 1:18 AM
4And it doesn't matter when those 90 days are completed within the 180 day period, correct?
So in theory if I spend 89 days in Europe on calendar days 1-89, leave, and then spend day 90 in Europe on calendar day 180, I have to leave the next day for 90 days before returning, even though I was only there for a day this second trip?
Edited by: matlm
Nov 23, 2012 1:43 AM
Nov 23, 2012 1:46 AM
Nov 23, 2012 7:24 AM
My question centers on visa free travel.
My concern was that they look back on any 180 day period - if I stay for 90, leave for 90 and then come back, I would still have 90 days in the last 180 days. This is not the case, correct?
My understanding is that you cannot go to the zone for 1 month, be out for 3, then be in for 5 (the 2 months you didn't use plus the additional three months from the new 180 day cycle). Correct?
So if that's the case, then here is my situation -
When I leave the zone, I will have about 20 "unused days." What would happen if I return 20 days before the initial 180 day period is up? I'm seeing three scenarios, let me know which one is correct:
1) I can only stay for 20 days (bringing me to 90 in 180 days), then I will have to leave for 90
2) I can stay for 20 days+ another 90 days beginning at the "new" 180 day cycle.
3) I can stay for 90 days (this one definitely seems incorrect)
Nov 23, 2012 8:29 AM
8The correct answer is 1). The Schengen Borders Code clearly states (in article 5):
1. For stays not exceeding three months PER SIX-MONTH PERIOD, the entry conditions for third-country nationals shall be the
This means you can stay for three months (= 90 days) out of any six-month (= 180 days) period.
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