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#15 Well said.

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#14, There's a double standard to your argument. You say people shouldn't tip where it's not the custom to do so. But then you say you don't tip the standard amount in North America where it is the custom to do so. So should we follow the local custom or not? Either tip where people tip or don't where they don't. Or as a third option, people who want to tip should tip. People that don't, don't.

I don't really get what do you mean by "come and see for yourself", I'm writing to you from Calgary ;-) It's not theory for me.

Who said that?

#15, People don't pick me out as a tourist. I'm a blender. Many people think I'm a local wherever I am. I often have arguments with people who think I'm lying when I say I'm not local. I once had a heated discussion with a Swedish woman for "being ashamed of being Swedish".

I do what the locals do. In most of Europe that I visit, people tip. People may not tip in Switzerland but in say Germany, France, Spain, Sweden, etc, etc it is common. So let's just say in many, most, parts of Europe, it is a tipping culture. It's not the leave it on the table tipping we do in the US, it's keep the change tipping. Say the bill is 8 euro. You hand the server a 20 euro note and say give me 10 back. That's what the tables next to me do. That's what I do. I tend not to hang out in tourist areas. In fact, much of the time I'm out in the suburbs. So the locals there are tippers.

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We had to divide tipping as "keep the change" thing and tipping by north american standards - eg 15% of a value and everyone from a sever to a freaking taxi driver. While first is present trough the world and it's nothing wrong with that, 2nd is horrible custom that shouldn't be spread.
As for me not tipping in North America - it's same culture shock thing, but mine is not really destructive. Locals will just thing I'm cheap and honestly I don't care. By tipping in developing world you make locals think that gringos are stupid money cows - a really bad thing.
It's so bad that people in Asia simply don't get a concept at all and in eg Vietnam they approach you saying "give me money!" as they've seen stupid yanks doing it before! They don't even get the idea that the tip is a optional way of saying "thank you" for a good service...but it's hard to blame them, it seems that yanks and canucks sometimes have the same problem and demand a tip regardless!

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"Keeping the change" as in 10% of the bill. That's a bit more than a dime. In North America the 15-20% thing isn't just a custom. It is how the server get's paid. So you not tipping in North America is not being cheap, it's simply not paying for the service you got. Thus it is destructive. And thus why people react badly to you since you are not following the local culture. Just as in some places in say Japan, they decline my tip since it violates their custom. The servers in North America are letting you know you are violating their custom. Do I always tip in the US? No. If I get bad service, I don't tip at all. If they give me lip about it, I tell them exactly why I didn't tip.

I've been to Vietnam and SEA a lot. I have never had that happen. I have had that happen in India. (I just heard 3 gunshots here in Puno. More in the Puno thread.) They just don't come up and demand money. They do something stupid for me and demand bakesh. (3 more shots).

I'm heading out to see what's up with in the hood.

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I think how the north americans get paid should be the responsibility of the employer, not the customers. The customer's responsibility is to ensure they pay for the services rendered by the employer, not the employee. This is basic labour fundamentals and should be made into a law (in the form of fairer minimum wage laws) and should not be perceived as a custom. It isn't my fault that I travel to America and the waiters are not being paid well and then I'm obliged to pay over and above what has been billed to me, it is akin to donating to beggars.

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This is utter nonsense and exactly the way you "impose" the 15% custom! I'm not their freaking employer to pay their salaries! End of story!
I come from a poor country and I've made it so far pretty well in the world...nobody force them to be a server, don't like it? Change your job! You have plenty of opportunities there! It's just enough to have more than half brain...
And if you happen to have that don't accept a job that is paid under minimum wage as it's simply demeaning!
Lobby of diary producers in Canada can force the government to impose minimum prices that make cheapest cheese going for 20-25$/kg. Let them form a servers union and demand change of the law that allow then being underpaid, but I'm not paying for their problems, as I'm not responsible for them, simple as that!


It's not just a "custom" (like taking your hat off and shaking hands), it's going directly from my pocket! If it was free I would do it, but because it will cost me $10-20 more in anyway very expensive bill I will not follow.

In Vietnam I've heard "give me money" in bad English enough times, in Thailand, Laos or Cambodia they are too polite to do it in your face, but they'll try anyway in subtle way whenever they have a chance...
It's a bad custom imposed by stupid whites and there is no escape from it.

#20 I've been writing the reply in the same time. This is exactly what I and the whole world think about this nonsense, yanks and canuck just have to open their eyes...I'm not paying, end of story.

Edited by: ban_janti_return

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About tipping in Europe: what you describe also exists in Switzerland, but this is not tipping in the sense you understand it in the US, it's more rounding up the bill, like leaving 8€ for a 7.8€ bill (leaving 10€ would be very generous and actually weird). What waiters make out of this is an extra compared to their salary, and they won't make an angry face if you leave nothing. Actually the name in french is pretty informative: pourboire, meaning literally "to drink"

And I didn't mean you look like a tourist, I meant that US citizens are easily identified: your accent betrays you. You may speak other languages than english, but I doubt you blend with the locals to the point of speaking natively other languages with local accents.

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This is utter nonsense and exactly the way you "impose" the 15% custom! I'm not their freaking employer to pay their salaries! End of story!

I come from a poor country and I've made it so far pretty well in the world...nobody force them to be a server, don't like it?

You've been advocating respecting the local culture and not "imposing" a culture where it isn't local. Yet you now admit to "imposing" the culture of your birth onto the North American culture. Like it or not, in North America, the culture is to tip and that tip is how servers get a bulk of their income. By not tipping and demanding they be paid otherwise, you are "imposing" your culture onto them.

So in terms of my original question, you seem to be saying that you don't care what the local culture is, you are just not in favor of tipping and thus I should not tip regardless of what the local culture expects.

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but I doubt you blend with the locals to the point of speaking natively other languages with local accents.

Actually, I'm surprised by this myself. Here in Peru, the locals tell me that I sound perfect. That I don't have an accent at all. My vocabulary is limited, but I know what I can say I say really well. Most tourist, even the Spanish speaking ones, think I'm fluent until I tell them I talk with the vocabulary of a little kid. I'm actually told the same in Germany. Although my vocabulary is even more limited.

I don't really need a large vocabulary in a restaurant. The challenges and responses are pretty standard. Things like ordering in a restaurant, buying tickets and asking about hotel rooms I got down pat. Especially here in Peru where the locals are not exactly verbose when dealing with waitstaff.

I don't know what it is about me, but people tend to think I'm local. I remember my first trip to Amsterdam. It was my second international city ever. My first was London a few days earlier. I was just standing there and some Dutch guy comes up to me and asks me a question. I said in my broken Dutch that I don't speak Dutch, do you speak English. He looks at me and switches to English and says he thought I was Dutch. I asked him sarcastically "Do I look Dutch?" He says. "Yes". This happens pretty much everywhere. People that I travel with have seen this in action and call me a "social chameleon".

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I also hate the American custom of being expected to leave a tip to everyone for everything. It's stupid any annoying, they need to pay their staff better. It bothers me that this custom is being spread around the world and I personally don't tip in SAM unless someone does something out of the ordinary. Rounding up the bill is okay though.

As for not tipping within North America, IMO that is incredibly rude (unless the service was really bad). Like I said I hate this custom, but it is their custom and that's how they do things. By not tipping you are denying an honest employee of their salary. It's also offensive because most waiters would assume you are not tipping because of bad service and take it personally.

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Out of interest, what is the difference between the service provided by American staffs at tourist information centres / shopping centres vs those at restaurants / hotels? I don't ever see tourist information staff being tipped. Isn't there more of a reason to tip given the service is free because of this "custom"?

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An interesting parade of cheapass bullshit.

1. I came from a poor country where we did not tip, therefore I am going to use this as an excuse to not tip for the rest of my life, regardless of location.

2. In Europe we don't tip. (completely ignoring the fact that 15% is added to every restaurant bill, unlike North America where tipping is optional)

3. If you tip people who are not used to being tipped you will "ruin it for others". "Ruin what?" Well ruin my percieved right to run roughshod over my fellow human beings who were not fortunate enough to be born within the same land mass that I was, therefore I am entitled. I can afford to fly to this country, I can afford to stay in the hotels, and I can afford to eat in these restaurants, but tipping people who probably struggle a lot more than you and I do creates outrage from some posters. Shameful.

I'm with the OP, and his generous and gracious instincts.

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Sorry dear, but you really shouldn't smoke before posting. First of all I'm in minority and I'm not starting a revolution, other tip and I'm not shouting around restaurant that they shouldn't,

Good. Then you fully support the tipping that I do in hostals/hospedajes for exactly the same reasons. I tip but I don't condemn others for not doing so. I guess it was a roundabout trip to get here with all the talk about respecting the local culture, but in the end that was just noise. We're on the same page. You don't tip where it's expected. I do tip where it's not.

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#30 I'm NOT A TAVELLER IN NORTH AMERICA! I'm a resident (a temporary one), that's why my actions don't have any meaning, on the other hand yours make an influence
#31 I don't think is any way devastating for a local culture, locals like to adopt what they see as a easy way of making money, it's problem for us - travellers.

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#32, It's even worse. Travellers come and go. Stupid toursts. A resident is there for the long term. You'd think they wanted to migrate to adopt the culture of their new adopted land. Not insult it's culture with each passing day. Being a resident and "imposing" your old culture on the your new chosen home has far more meaning than just travelling through and making the occasional faux pas.

#31, I've been coming to SA for over a decade. Including every other month for 3 years. This was over a decade ago when there weren't that many tourists in SA. SA is a tipping culture. Some countries in SA more than others. Especially in restaurants. Some people mistake "cubierto" on the bill for the service charge. It is not the tip. That's the table fee that goes to the restaurant. So if you only tipped 4 times in 2 years and only to tourist guides, you've thumbed your nose at their culture.