Big Birthday: Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Sedona - feedback please
Replies: 22 - Last Post: Jul 22, 2012 2:35 PM Last Post By: SonataCrew
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Big Birthday: Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Sedona - feedback please
It's my BF's 50th birthday next year and he wants to visit the Grand Canyon. We'll be making the trip from England and will visit family in Texas en route. I've been researching this on and off for months - now the time has come to book flights etc and I would really appreciate some input.We had thought about travelling in April but have delayed the trip so that we can also visit the North Rim. This means that we'll be in USA for the Memorial Day weekend - is it likely that places will be much busier then? We have a little flexibility on dates but I'm aware that the later we travel, the hotter it will be in some places.
BF is keen to self drive rather than take a tour from Las Vegas. We will share the driving. and look forward to seeing the spectacular scenery. I've tried to avoid the temptation to visit too many places and want to include some time to relax before we fly home.
He enjoys photography and we are OK with gentle hiking but not looking for anything too strenuous. However a white water rafting trip sounds exciting!
Very important point - we have a modest budget for this trip. We're not looking for lots of entertainment, we enjoy meeting people/watching the world go by.
Here's our provisional itinerary:
1. Sat 18 May 2013 fly from London to Houston, stay with relatives for 2 or 3 nights
2. Mon 20 or Tue 21 May fly to Las Vegas (afternoon flight, arrive after dark to see the lights) stay 1 or 2 nights at Las Vegas
3. pick up hire car and visit Zion NP, Bryce Canyon, GC North Rim (stay 3 nights in the area eg Savage Point near Kanab)
4. visit Lake Powell, Antelope Canyon etc, maybe stay 1 night in the area. I'm not so sure about LP after reading many comments on this forum.
5. drive to Sedona - either via GC South Rim or visit there on a day trip later in the week
6. stay few nights in Sedona at timeshare (I have a unit in UK which I'm going to exchange for a week in Sedona, although we may only stay there 4 nights Mon 27-Fri 31)
7. drive back to Las Vegas on Friday 31 May, fly back to London overnight. We had planned to fly back from Phoenix but the car hire costs lots more with a drop off at a different airport.
Does the overall itinerary sound reasonable? Can you see potential problems? Have I missed any 'must see' places? Thanks for taking time to read this rather lengthy first post!
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This means that we'll be in USA for the Memorial Day weekend - is it likely that places will be much busier then?
Yes.Memorial Day weekened is the unofficial start of the summer travel season. Places, especially parks, tend to fill up quickly.
BF is keen to self drive rather than take a tour from Las Vegas
Good choice.visit Zion NP, Bryce Canyon, GC North Rim (stay 3 nights in the area eg Savage Point
If you can make it four nights, do.Also, I'd move around. Stay at the north rim (if you can get lodging; book now if possible), Springdale (xZion) and Tropic (xBryce). It'll help maximize time in the parks as opposed to time driving.
visit Lake Powell, Antelope Canyon etc, maybe stay 1 night in the area
Lake Powell is just that, a big lake (well, reservoir). Not much really to see, unless you really get off the beaten path (which will take a lot of time).or visit there on a day trip later in the week
That's about 2.5 hours on the road each way.
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Welcome to Thorn Tree.Good advice above.
visit Lake Powell, Antelope Canyon etc, maybe stay 1 night in the area
Lake Powell is more than "a big lake (well, reservoir)." The problem is that you have to see it from a houseboat. Google "Lake Powell Houseboat." Sadly, that may not sit well with a "modest budget."
Does the overall itinerary sound reasonable? Can you see potential problems?
It sounds reasonable if you like to drive. I'd recommend that your BF research the drive times and distances involved thoroughly. It will not be the same as driving in the UK. You will pass miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles. And yes, we still use the statute mile here, not the kilometer.
I will warn you about the drive from Phoenix back to Las Vegas on the 31st. It will take forever to clear the Phoenix traffic on a Friday if you take the "obvious" route, US-60, from Phoenix to Wickenburg. It is a slow drive with mistimed traffic lights every 100 yards -- or so it seems. A better route is to take I-10 west out of Phoenix to 339th Ave., take Indian School Road west to 355th Ave., and take 355th north to Wickenburg. It may not be any shorter time-wise, but it will seem like it. I hesitate to mention this "shorter" route. It could be under construction. Plot it on Google or MapQuest before you use it. You still can't avoid the Friday traffic in Wickenburg.
You pick up US-93 in Wickenburg and you'll follow it all the way to Las Vegas. It is maddening too, but in a different way. It is a series of 2-way rights-of-way interspersed with dual lane highway rights-of-way. It also seems to be crawling with cops with nothing better to do than to write speeding tickets. It is not an interstate highway so there are cross roads -- some of which are even well marked. There are lots of trucks. The dangerous part is that boredom, monotony, and fatigue can cause one to forget one is on a 2-way traffic segment of the road. Next to CA-138 between I-15 and Palmdale, CA, US-93 through Arizona is my least-favorite drive. Be careful and allow a lot of time for this drive. It always seems to take me longer than I expect it to take. Leave EARLY on the 31st. If you get to Las Vegas well before your departure time, I'm sure you will be able to find something to do.
A "must see" that you will drive right past on US-93 is Hoover Dam. Stop and see the dam and the new bridge.
Have a great time.
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many thanks, this is really helpful :-) We've been studying the maps again, looking at bzookaj's suggested places to stay. The Grand Canyon Lodge is already booked on our preferred nights (24 or 25 May) so we need to make changes somewhere.Great info from zeldasdad about the roads, and Hoover Dam. We would be travelling back from Sedona to LV on a Friday (not Phoenix) - hopefully this is a slightly easier route. Fairly sure I know what you mean by miles and miles of miles and miles, and yes that could be just too much - but I'm guessing that's our only option if we want to see several places. We've had a look at some of the roads on Streetview, presumably a standard rental car (eg Toyota Corolla) is OK?
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"visit Lake Powell, Antelope Canyon etc, maybe stay 1 night in the areaLake Powell is just that, a big lake (well, reservoir). Not much really to see, unless you really get off the beaten path (which will take a lot of time).
or visit there on a day trip later in the week
That's about 2.5 hours on the road each way."
Sorry, I've not worked out how to include previous text :-(
I can see that driving from North Rim to Sedona is way too far in a day, so we would want to stay overnight somewhere. as an alternative to Lake Powell/Page. What about Tuba City as an alternative stopover to Lake Powell/Page? Then we would drive to Sedona on the following day, via South Rim.
To avoid driving to Las Vegas on a Friday, I'm thinking about splitting our stay there ie. 1 night before driving to Zion and 1 night (Thurs) before flying back to London. Not ideal, but worth doing if it's going to be an easier drive on a Thursday.
And if we fly to US one day earlier we can be at North Rim on Thur 23 May when there is availability :-)
Edited by: SonataCrew
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Choose your rental car based on what you feel comfortable driving. Pretty much any rental car can drive pretty much any paved road in America. Pretty much any rental car is forbidden (by the rental companies) from driving any UNpaved road. A Corolla would be fine -- besides, the models listed on a rental agency website are just illustrative, and they're entirely likely to have another model of the same size instead.6
Your trip sounds refreshingly reasonable. So many people would try to 'hit' all your stops in 5 days...Check some of these possible hiking/photo destinations. http://g.co/maps/7byg3
There are some neat canyons in the area, such as Willis Creek, Buckskin Gulch, Round Valley Draw, etc., that are quite pretty and also reasonably easy to get to.
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I'd skip the Lake Powell / Antelope Canyon stuff and add that night to Zion-Bryce-North Rim. I would spend one night at Zion (Springdale, UT), one night at Bryce (Tropic, UT), and two nights at the North Rim if the lodge is available.Since the Grand Canyon seems to be the focus of this trip, why not spend more time at the South Rim as well? The North Rim is great because it is cooler and relatively uncrowded, but the South Rim is where you'll find the truly iconic vistas. Personally, I would trade Sedona for the South Rim without a second thought.... unless you are a new age hippie who is into crystals and vortexes and whatnot.
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Have to agree with #7 about fitting in the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.Don't necessarily skip Sedona (it IS pretty) but reduce to a couple of days and allot those to the South RIm. Even if it means having to give up some of the "free" accommodation in the traded timeshare. The South Rim really IS the iconic side, and you probably would regret it forever after that you were so near yet did not go.
Also - stay at the South Rim itself - book now (right now - today - this is NOT too soon for May 2013) at one of the less expensive lodges on the South RIm like Maswik or Kachina (perfectly comfortable). Staying in the park itself will allow you to see the canyon as it chnages from dawn, sunset, to twilight, and after the daytrippers have left. Also, you can at least peek in or eat at El Tovar (seeing those great old historic rustic lodges is part of the US National Park experience as far as I am concerned) and the other historic structures like the lookout tower, etc...on the South RIm.
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You'll see that Sedona gets mixed notices here on TT. Having lived in the general neighborhood for many years, I spent quite a bit of time there and I can absolutely see what turns people off, but there is a lot more to the place than the overpriced new-age ticky-tacky and tourist traps that make up much of the town itself. The surrounding countryside is lovely, and there is a great deal to see and do. In fact, there are more scenic, easy and easily accessible walks than you'll find in many National Parks...and once you get away from the nonsense of uptown Sedona, it is really a lovely and pleasant area. My folks have a time share there also, and I always look forward to several days for family get-togethers or holidays. The key is spend as little time as you can in Sedona proper, and when you do, try to have a sense of humor about it. Anyway, you can always drop me a PM for specific questions about the Sedona area.I do concur with others regarding skipping Lake Powell/Page. Definitely don't drive all the way out to Tuba City - yuck.
I agree with #1 about moving around and staying near the parks you'll be visiting. The parks are sort-of close together, but far enough that driving back and forth will noticeably cut into your day.
there are several other options at the North Rim for lodging. The Kaibab Lodge is right outside the park entrance, and the Jacob Lake lodge is about 40 miles away - a bit far, but not terrible if it is the only option. And that's it.
Regardless of how your North Rim plans work out, make sure you drive 89A between the North Rim and Marble Canyon during the daytime. The Vermillion Cliffs are spectacular. The old highway bridge at Marble Canyon, now a pedestrian feature, is worth a quick stop. You can walk out and stare 500 feet straight down to the river below, and ponder that this dramatic but relatively modest gorge with soon grow into the Grand Canyon.
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your replies are much appreciated, and these have helped us enormously. I/We had almost reached the stage of being overwhelmed by options - the input from TT has given us focus and renewed our enthusiasm!New (still provisional) itinerary:
1. Sat 18 May 2013 fly from London to Houston, stay with relatives for 3 nights
2. Tue 21 May fly to Las Vegas (morning flight) pick up hire car and visit Zion NP,
3. Tue 21 stay at Springdale (Zion) 1 night
4. Wed/Thur stay at Tropic (Bryce Canyon) 2 nights. We opted for staying 2 nights here rather than Zion because of the driving
5. Fri 24 visit North Rim, stay at Jacob Lake (Grand Canyon Lodge already fully booked that night)
6. Sat 25 stay at South Rim (thanks for the suggestion). I thought this was too far to drive in 1 day but coming from Jacob Lake knocks an hour off the driving time. Yes, we'll book this now!
7. Sun 26 drive to Sedona - stay 3 or 4 nights
8. Wed or Thur drive to Las Vegas, stay 1 or 2 nights
9. Fri 31 fly back to London overnight.
We are hoping to stay at Arroyo Roble Timeshare Resort in Sedona (by Oak Creek), using this as a base to see the local area and maybe take a ride on the Verde Canyon Railroad. I'm happy to indulge in a bit of window shopping but we're not planning to spend lots of time in Sedona town.
We'll miss flying in to LV at night but will see the neon as we leave instead. I might have to give up the window seat on this flight!
thanks again :-)
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New (still provisional) itinerary:
1. Sat 18 May 2013 fly from London to Houston, stay with relatives for 3 nights
2. Tue 21 May fly to Las Vegas (morning flight) pick up hire car and visit Zion NP,
3. Tue 21 stay at Springdale (Zion) 1 night
4. Wed/Thur stay at Tropic (Bryce Canyon) 2 nights. We opted for staying 2 nights here rather than Zion because of the driving
2. Tue 21 May fly to Las Vegas (morning flight) pick up hire car and visit Zion NP,
3. Tue 21 stay at Springdale (Zion) 1 night
4. Wed/Thur stay at Tropic (Bryce Canyon) 2 nights. We opted for staying 2 nights here rather than Zion because of the driving
Again, I'm missing something here. What "driving?" You are going to find 21 May to be a very looong day. Spend the nights of 21 and 22 May at Springdale. Zion is not a 6-hour park. Bryce is, unless you are a landscape artist. There are not any excessive driving legs in your itinerary by Western U. S. standards.
5. Fri 24 visit North Rim, stay at Jacob Lake (Grand Canyon Lodge already fully booked that night)
6. Sat 25 stay at South Rim (thanks for the suggestion). I thought this was too far to drive in 1 day but coming from Jacob Lake knocks an hour off the driving time. Yes, we'll book this now!
7. Sun 26 drive to Sedona - stay 3 or 4 nights
6. Sat 25 stay at South Rim (thanks for the suggestion). I thought this was too far to drive in 1 day but coming from Jacob Lake knocks an hour off the driving time. Yes, we'll book this now!
7. Sun 26 drive to Sedona - stay 3 or 4 nights
What are you intending to do for 3 or 4 days at Sedona? If it's scenery, there is more and better at Grand Canyon, Bryce, and Zion. If it is socializing, there is more and better at Las Vegas. There is something wrong with 1 night at Zion and 3-4 nights at Sedona
8. Wed or Thur drive to Las Vegas, stay 1 or 2 nights
9. Fri 31 fly back to London overnight.
9. Fri 31 fly back to London overnight.
We'll miss flying in to LV at night but will see the neon as we leave instead. I might have to give up the window seat on this flight!
Take the elevator to the top of the Stratosphere Tower at night. It is the next best thing.
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There is something wrong with 1 night at Zion and 3-4 nights at Sedona
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I also agree that it's better to have 2 nights at Zion and 1 at Bryce rather than vice versa. Bryce can easily be seen in a few hours (though try for at least one sunset and/or sunrise). I'm also confused about "the driving" - it's a much longer drive from Vegas-Zion as from Zion-Bryce, so you'd probably want the 2 nights at Zion since you'll arrive a little late the first day.
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I agree, most of the best parts of Bryce can be seen in a day, and that's if you're a keen hiker. Otherwise, it is a half-day park for sure. It is very beautiful, but quite compact.There is something wrong with 1 night at Zion and 3-4 nights at Sedona
Couldn't have said it better myself.
OK OK OK. You guys all have a point about Sedona, in a sort of limited way. The parks of Utah are more spectacular. There isn't much in the way of nightlife (although there are many good restaurants). HOWEVER, the OP has a pre-paid and comfortable time-share right on the banks of Oak Creek. Honestly, if I wanted to spend 3 or 4 days relaxing, enjoying nice scenery, and doing some mellow hiking and sightseeing, the Sedona area is really user-friendly. If you think it is all crystal shops and overpriced cowboy hats, you honestly don't know the area very well. Having lived in nearby Flagstaff for many years, and hosted many, many visiting friends and relatives, I can attest that unless someone is a serious wilderness hiker, I have an easier time entertaining them for several straight days in Sedona than most national parks. Don't get me wrong. I get that it isn't as dramatic as Zion, and the "scene", to the extent there is one, borders on self-parody. I wouldn't trade a grand tour of the National Parks for a week in Sedona, not in a million years. but for a few days in a nice place on the creek at the end of a long trip? It's totally worthwhile.
