Have we discussed this before?
Replies: 24 - Last Post: Jul 20, 2012 6:22 AM Last Post By: pizwat
Jul 16, 2012 1:04 PM
Have we discussed this before?Time to scrap Eastern Europe
Jul 16, 2012 1:24 PM
This is a term which has nothing to do with politics. It is simply a division of space. Russia has an area known as the Far East and European Russia and Siberia. The US is commonly divided into sections - North, Mid Atlantic, South, MidWest, Rocky Mountains, West coast, etc.
And to people who say that this should be Central Europe, that would mean dividing into more pieces as many of these countries clearly are not central Europe.
Honestly this is not a political division - this is purely and simply a geographic statement with the possible exception of Greece which at one time was included in this section.
Jul 17, 2012 1:20 AM
2Yes, Fieldgate, it was discussed multiple times before. Each time this kind of discussion pass here, I stay amazed at how little understanding and respect this forum board and many members have towards us who actually are from Europe.
At least if we speak about division on thorntree (EE branch), it is purely political, based on non-European ignorant and prejudiced points of view cemented in times of 2nd half of 20th century's anti-communist propagandha in certain parts of the world. Multiple times many members here (including me) tried to point out how senseless is this kind of division, both geographical, cultural, historical and most important - travel-wise.
Jul 17, 2012 1:27 AM
Jul 17, 2012 3:11 AM
4Raki_Man - that has been suggested but then you probably need to add the Caucasus to Russia and a branch of just Russia and three countries of the Caucasus would be very small. Turkey was added to this branch a few years ago when it was concluded that most travel to Istanbul came from the West and went to the East and never passed through the middle east to get there. Greece was removed before that, perhaps when the Euro came into being about 2002.
As you can see from mpetrovic's remarks, in which he sees the current divisions here on the TT as political while I don't, all discussions seem to cause intense feelings. Some years ago, the moderators indicated that they would change things if the regulars on this branch could come to some consensus. None was every reached and every 3-4 years, the issue gets raised.
Sorry but the chances of reaching agreement seem slim.
Jul 17, 2012 3:16 AM
5BTW you see a division between Ukraine and Russia. I would say, that one could also see a line on the other side of Ukraine, next to Poland, which would put all the European part of the former Soviet Union into a single branch. And if you move the ruler over just a little bit more, to the other side of Poland, you will see that it includes all the countries on this branch plus Greece. As I said, I don't think it is political but rather geographic.
Jul 17, 2012 6:50 AM
Same here. My only understanding and sort of excuse for LP admin has usually been the fact that this website was started and run from antipodes, which is as far as one can get from Europe.
And yes, I remember several discussions in the past, so the title of this topic was tongue in cheek.
Jul 17, 2012 12:08 PM
7Completely DISAGREE with Ruth in #1. Sorry, you can't be more wrong.
Need proof? if it's geographical, why is Greece in the Western Europe branch?
and why is the Prague, which is further west than Vienna, considered 'Eastern Europe' and Vienna 'Western Europe'? The mind boggles how you can suggest with a straight face that this is purely geographical. And I am not even talking about the fact that 95% of Turkey isn;t even in Europe. It's delusional to think that politics have nothing to do with it.
Fully agree that it's purely based on a political division that was scrapped 20 years ago... Yes we have discussed this before and the conclusion was often that the labels stay because that is the terminology that the dumb non-Europeans who come to post here use... so it's a matter of giving in to the politically and historically challenged of this world.
Geographical? Don;t make me laugh. that suggest that before 1945, people couldn't get their Geography straight. Nobody would have labelled Poland or Czechoslovakia as 'Eastern Europe' before that year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa
None was every reached and every 3-4 years, the issue gets raised.
I think most regulars would easily agree to reinstating that previous name.
Jul 17, 2012 3:26 PM
and why is the Prague, which is further west than Vienna, considered 'Eastern Europe' and Vienna 'Western Europe'?
When the "Lords of the LP" changed the name from Central and Eastern Europe, there was consensus. It wasn't simply American college students, it was that looking at a map, Central Europe seemed to include Germany and Austria and Italy.
Jul 18, 2012 8:00 AM
9I'm with MTL and a few other posters on this.
The present layout of this branch is a relict from cold war and iron curtain, an intermezzo in the history of Europe that lasted 45 years. It ignores geography, all historical and cultural aspects, only to serve pragmatic approach of those who should know better. Why not try to educate them instead?
Jul 18, 2012 8:05 AM
Jul 18, 2012 8:49 AM
Central Europe could easily be a separate branch, or Central Europe and Baltics. And that at least for one reason: travelling to Czech Rep or Hungary, and especially within EU, has nothing in common with a travel to Caucasus or Kamchatka. Nothing - neither geographically, nor culturally, politically, or in terms of travel patterns.
There are even separate branches for countries like Cuba and Mexico, so why not create a separate branch for a group of 7-10 countries?
(it'd be easier to bind Canada and the US together, than all what's included in EE branch. It used to be so but Canadians didn't like it and got their own branch).
Jul 18, 2012 9:55 AM
Jul 18, 2012 10:02 AM
MTL has already posted a link in #7 post. Here's another one
Jul 18, 2012 10:39 AM
14I seriously doubt that the folks on the Western Europe branch will agree to the Wikipedia division but you are welcome to take the discussion to them.
Actually travel patterns do suggest that lots of people go from Hungary or the Czech Republic to the Balkans and on to Istanbul or from the Balkans through Turkey to the Caucasus.
I am not saying that this can't happen. Realistically I just don't see much agreement.
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