Replies: 25 - Last Post: Apr 1, 2012 5:51 AM Last Post By: regards
Mar 30, 2012 12:43 AM
Schengen QuestionI have diligently spent considerable time looking for my answer both here on TT, and elsewhere. As I have not yet found a satisfactory answer, I am hoping for some feedback. Thank you.
- I entered Schengen area (Greece) on October 27 and left (Italy) on January 6 (= 72 days).
- I re-enter (Italy) on April 5.
- Theoretically, I have 17 days of my 90 within 180 days left.
- I will reach the 90th day on the 180th day on April 24.
I want to keep my 17 days, if possible. What do I do on April 24?
Mar 30, 2012 12:59 AM
1I don't understand your question.
If you're in Italy for those 17 days, what do you mean by 'keeping' them?
Mar 30, 2012 1:38 AM
Mar 30, 2012 3:53 AM
3Let me try to decifer this complex question(s) ....
You mean to say you want to add your remaining 17 days onto your new 90 day Schengen restriction of 90 days, giving you a total of 107 days within the Schengen zone?
You simply can't add up the previous days you didn't spend during your last visit in the Schengen zone to your next visit. If that were possible someone who is 20 years old and has never been to Europe or the Schengen zone, can simply add up all the previous days, and spend a total of 5 years in Europe, because they 'saved up' their allotted Schengen Zone time since they were born?
Mar 30, 2012 3:57 AM
4You can only spend a maximum time of 90 days every 180 days in the Schengen zone. Then when 180 days has passed you can spend another 90 days in Schengen.
90 days in Schengen then 90 days outside of Schengen, then another 90 days in Schengen. And so on... (90 in + 90 out = 180 days) Then it resets.
Mar 30, 2012 7:57 AM
5On the 5th April 2012 you 'll have been 73 days out of the last 180 days in the Schengen zone.
06.04.2012: 74 days
07.04.2012: 75 days
21.04.2012: 89 days
22.04.2012: 90 days
23.04.2012: 91 days
24.04.2012: 92 days
25.04.2012: 92 days (as now the 180 last days period starts on the 28.10.2011)
26.04.2012: 92 days
Mar 30, 2012 8:36 AM
6I don't see how you can "keep" your 17 days if you'll be spending them in Italy. Unless you plan enter Italy and then immediately leave Italy and the entire Schengen zone.
There's no true consensus about how the 90/180 rule is enforced--even among immigration officers, if previous threads on this forum are to be believed. But the safest assumption to make is that the clock doesn't reset--that is, that the clock is "always" ticking and immigration officers will always look at your whereabouts in the last 180 days.
Also, it's not their job to prove you have over-stayed. It's your job to prove you haven't. So keep those non-Schengen hotel receipts and used plane/rail tickets handy, just in case.
Mar 31, 2012 2:11 AM
7Oh dear, and I was trying to be so clear! ~ Thank you everyone! ~
-I entered Schengen area (Greece) on 27 October and left (Italy) on 6 January (= 72 days).
-I have spent 90 days in Turkey.
-I will re-enter (Italy) on 5 April.
Theoretically, I have 15 days of my 90/180 days left.
I will reach the 90th day on the 180th day on 22 April.
(thank you for the date corrections everyone!)
On 22 April, I understand that the 180 "re-sets", and then I will have another 90 days to spend in 'the zone'.
My question: what must I do on April 22? Must I go to an embassy or Passport Control to get another stamp? Do I simply continue on my travels and carefully document my dates of entry/exit/re-entry? Must I actually leave 'the zone' to be re-issued another 90/180?
Is it all much too complicated? Should I simply forgo the 15 days left on my current 90/180 and start over when I fly from Turkey to Italy on 5 April? I really prefer not to as I want to use those 15 days I still have!
Mar 31, 2012 2:44 AM
8I think you should ask an embassy or some official place about your question. I don't have the impression that you have the right to carry over any "unused days" from a previous stay in the Schengen zone. It's 90 days out of 180. If you don't use them doesn't mean they are yours at some time in the future.
The implication would be: "I only stayed 20 days in Schengen last time, this time I want to stay for 160".
As I say, try to get some official information. After all, this is a travel forum of civilians, not embassy personnel. And it would be good if you came back to tell us what they say.
Mar 31, 2012 2:54 AM
Mar 31, 2012 3:19 AM
Mar 31, 2012 3:33 AM
Mar 31, 2012 3:50 AM
12Oh, I see what you want to do. You want to know if the old 'visa run' trick to 'chain' periods together works. It was the question about 'keeping' your 17 days that threw me.
The simple answer is that it shouldn't. As I understand it, the rule that should apply is that once your 90 days in the zone are up, you must leave and can't re-enter for 90 days irrespective of where you are in your 180 day period.
Now, I'm quite sure that you can find a million anecdotes about how people stayed in schengen country x for 90 days, jumped over the border to the UK/Croatia/somewhere else outside the schengen zone and then come back in for another 3 months. Maybe it works. And maybe your border guards apply the rule as it is meant to apply. You won't know until you try.
Of course, trying and failing is likely to be expensive and annoying. Presumably being denied entry is slightly better for your record than being recorded as a visa overstayer when you leave the zone.
No one here can give you a definitive answer, but you should bear in mind that the people who made the schengen rules weren't stupid, and they didn't want people able to stay in the zone indefinitely simply by taking a weekend trip outside the zone every few months.
Mar 31, 2012 3:53 AM
13If the clock just "re-set," everybody could spend 180 days in a row in Schengen. "Hey, I spent the first 90 days outside of Schengen. Now I want to spend the next 90 days of my first 180 day unit here and the first 90 days of my next 180 day unit." Needless to say, it doesn't work this way.
Speaking of trying to be clear: I have already explained my understanding of the "always ticking" clock that does not re-set, but always takes your last 180 days into consideration. I'm sorry it's not what you want to hear. If you do a search on this forum for Schengen, you'll find many threads of people going around and around on this issue. There is no definitive answer. Only more and less liberal interpretations. But if you encounter a border guard who has a more conservative interpretation of the rule than you do, the consequences could be unpleasant and instantaneous.
Mar 31, 2012 4:22 AM
14I spent 72 days in Schengen area.
I came to Turkey for 90 days.
Total = 72 out of 162 days in Schengen area (the 180 day "clock" is still "ticking").
On 5 April, I fly to Italy.
Do I still have 15 of 90 days on my original 180 day "clock"?
My 90/180 expires on 22 April.
What do I do on 22 April to get a new 90/180 "clock"?
I really appreciate everyone's help with this. Unfortunately, by the responses I'm getting, it seems I'm not articulate my situation clearly enough.
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