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Most ex-pat workers with "normal" wages find it indispensable to live in France -- and so do many of the Swiss. Towns like Annemasse or Ferney-Voltaire are very popular with workers in Geneva. And just about all major food shopping is done in France, even for people who live in Geneva. That's why the Swiss Migros chain has opened several hypermarkets in France, to try to get back some of the customers at lower prices.

It's also interesting to know that Geneva only has something like 4km of border with the rest of Switzerland and 50km with France. When you talk about Geneva to anyone else in Switzerland if it has anything to do with Swiss affairs, they always guffaw and say "Geneva isn't part of Switzerland -- it's part of France." And it's true that the people of Geneva are more interested in French politics and French television programs than anything that is happening in the rest of Switzerland.

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"When you talk about Geneva to anyone else in Switzerland if it has anything to do with Swiss affairs, they always guffaw and say "Geneva isn't part of Switzerland -- it's part of France."

Who told you that nonsense?
Probably one of the 200.000 foreigners living in Geneva (among a total population of 450.000) or one of the 150.000 French people living in France and working in Geneva.

Geneva did never belong to France and was allied to Switzerland since 1526. It got a Swiss Canton in 1815, immediately after the Napoleonic wars.

Every Swiss is proud of Geneva with the European headquarters of the UNO, the more than 30 International Organizations, the CERN, the headquarters of the International Red Cross Committee (founded by the Geneva citizen Henri Dunant) and of the many famous citizens this town, like Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Madame de Stael, Jean Calvin, Jean Piaget, Ferdinand Hodler, Frank Martin, Ernest Ansermet, Alain Tanner......

Every real Genevois would get very angry if you would call him a Frenchman. I never forgot a scene in a movie of Alain Tanner where he showed the Swiss border village of La Plaine, with the comment: "un petit village loin de toute civilisation, pire, presque deja en France (a small village far away from every civilization, worse, almost in France already)".

Geneva people looks of course Swiss and French television programs, but only the latter is often commented with a poignant sarcasm.

Now to the question of our Empress:
People commute to Geneva from everywhere in a 100 km radius. The centers of the French towns of Annemasse, St. Julien-en-Genevois, St. Genis and Ferney-Voltaire are connected to Geneva city center by frequent Geneva city buses. If you live at other places in France, you cannot do it without a car. The Swiss villages along Lake Geneva (up to Lausanne) are connected to Geneva by frequent trains (5am until midnight). Lausanne is 30 to 40 minutes by train from Geneva, at least 4 trains every hour.

Income taxes are not only different from one country to another, but from one Swiss village to another.

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Thanks guys, that's all really helpful; that link, a_p, I'll take a closer look at, but looks like there's some good tips in there.

Thanks neckervd for mentioning specific towns - exactly what I was after. I'm probably getting a bit ahead of myself - fingers crossed that I actually get the job! - but it's good to have somewhere to start if I get to that point.

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"When you talk about Geneva to anyone else in Switzerland if it has anything to do with Swiss affairs, they always guffaw and say "Geneva isn't part of Switzerland -- it's part of France."

It is my Swiss friends from Zürich and Bern who always say that. Hell, I've even heard Swiss people in Lausanne saying it. They tend to say it when you talk about something Swiss and then you explain that it was something in Geneva.

They are not saying the Geneva is literally part of France, but it is spiritually. They are not at all preoccupied by what is going on in the rest of Switzerland and are particularly embarrassed to be associated in any way with the rural German speaking cantons.

Edited by: Kerouac2

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#5, Kerouac2, I suggest you come to Geneva and get the real feeling of this very cosmopolitan city before you report sayings of your Swiss/Alemannic friends who seem to have not the slightest clue. It's however sometimes the other way round: The French think they are in a French city when they visit Geneva. A good expample why that is so is "le Paquis" - here, Japanese, Korean, French, Chinese, South American, Italian and Swiss restaurants are doing business peacefully besides each other. Just like in some parts of Paris, though... That's what les genevois are proud of!

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Kerouac: I was born in Biel/Bienne (a completely bilingual town), I studied in Neuchatel and St. Gallen (the easternmost place in Switzeralnd which still deserves the name town), I live in Bern now and have have a lot of friends there, as well as in Geneva, Lausanne, Vallorbe, Morges, Vevey, Sion, Brig, Locarno, Chiasso, Solothurn, Basel, Zurich, Frauenfeld, Scuol ....., but I never met somebody who had the idea to assimilate Geneva with France.

My Geneva friends call French people "les Gaulois (et leur guignol de roi Nicolas premier). The protestant Republique et Canton de Geneve has a political culture which has absolutely nothing in common with France. The Geneva parliament and government fix the income taxes, the road construction program, the social welfare, the health care policy, the educational policy, etc. like other Swiss cantons whereas in France, everything is decided in Paris, despite the so-called decentralisation.

The French speaking National Television (TSR; headquerters in Geneva) has the same libertys and is watched in the whole country.

On the other hand, it is clear that Geneva people don't like too much the conservative small mountain farmers of Appenzell (those who had to be forced by the Federal Government to give the voting rights to their female population some 40 years ago) and doesn't want to be associated with this minorities. And it's clear too, that Geneva people know better the French areas just a few km away than the people and the areas of Eastern Switzerland which can be reached in 4 to 7 hours only.

It's true too, that some uneducated people in Geneva (as well as in Eastern Switzerland) have some curious ideas about compatriots who don't speak their language. But that's a tiny minority. You can find this phenomena in every country.

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I visit Geneva often and love it. I have never considered it to be French. You need to talk to your compatriots if you don't want them to disparage this fine city with the French allusion.

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hi EmpressJo, not sure what you mean by
Also, what is the rental market like in Dec/Jan? Do a lot of apartments become free with expats returning home at that time of year?
when you say expats are you talking about just people from Australia? I am an expat, but never heard of a mass exit of expats in Dec/Jan.

and to your comment although we each have the magic EU passport - mine British, his Italian i am sure you are aware that to live/work in Switzerland even with an EU passport means you still have to have a residence / work permit.

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Yes, the EU passport loses a lot of its magic in Switzerland.

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when you say expats are you talking about just people from Australia?

Not at all - I hope I'm not that narrow-minded. I simply asked as I thought there could be a number of people living/working there on a project or contract on a calendar year basis. If that's not generally the rule, that's fine; I just thought that may have been the case, so I asked.

i am sure you are aware that to live/work in Switzerland even with an EU passport means you still have to have a residence / work permit.

No, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for bringing it up; I'll need to look into it. I guess having an EU passport would make it easier than only having an Australian one though, given the strict numbers of non-EU residence permits?

And thanks Paul for the links - perfect!

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Thanks englishswiss. I need to look into it more, obviously. The job I've applied for can be based in either Paris or Geneva, so we'll have to wait and see a) if I get the job and b) where I end up.

If I end up in Geneva, I'll definitely post more questions, but I'm sure my employer would sort me out.

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Thanks for that, jatbueno. I had a second interview last night, so it's getting closer.

Be aware that your employer may sort your work/living permit for CH but you'll still have to get a permit to live in France (and they probably won't sort that for you).

I find this quite curious. So, you need a residency permit to live in France as well, even if you have an EU passport? Switzerland I can understand - not being part of the EU - but I thought having an EU passport meant you could freely work and live where you chose, without having permits?

Do any of the French satellite towns have direct train access to Geneva? I don't think we'd want a car if we could get away with it.

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Towns in the French neighbourhood of Geneva with direct train access:

Annemasse: 23 trains daily, last train at 20.30. But local bus Annemasse - Moillesulaz and tramway Moillesulaz - Geneva too.

Bellegarde: 20 trains daily, last train at 20.15

Thonon-les-Bains: 13 trains daily, last train at 20.30, plus 7 buses: last bus at 19.15

Annecy: 9 trains daily, last departure at 20.03, plus 10 buses, lst departure at 19.30

The following places are well connected to Geneva (by bus only, but until 11pm or later):
Ferney-Voltaire, St-Julien-en-Genevois, Veyrier, Vallard, Colonges, Archamps, Ornex, Maconnex, Sergny, Cessy, Gex, St-Genis - Pouilly, Thoiry

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Looks like they roll in the sidewalks quite early!