If only I knew then what I know now. ... - Thorn Tree travel forum

If only I knew then what I know now. Or, is Marrakech over-commercialised?

Replies: 49 - Last Post: 29-Aug-2008 04:59 Last Post By: Fran_Bervard

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Posted
18-Jul-2008 22:13
by: ceb39

Posts: 20
Registered: 01/11/02

If only I knew then what I know now. Or, is Marrakech over-commercialised?

Planning to spend 4 days in Marrakech to "get a feel for the city" that all guidebooks, not just LP, paint a rosy picture of, was the biggest mistake of my trip to Morocco. The huge numbers of people at every turn with expectations for some sort of monetary reward for trying to help, indeed using any talking tactic necessary to make it even appear that they have assisted you. Store owners in the souks who block your exit are no better. By day 3, rather than being desensitised, one finds oneself being rude and bositerous in order to repel the hustlers, and the amateur snake charmers and dancers who drape their wares on you to get their payment. I am sorry, but no one seemed genuine in Marrakech who didn't see dirham notes hanging off you when you walked along. But it seems I got off lucky, judging by reports on comments directed at female tourists by gutless Marrakech males. And theres no point saying "this is Morocco, this is Marrakech!" Thats a bullshit argument, its wrong in any language or country. I can attest that you never get this type of unwanted attention in Indon, the Pacific Islands, Nepal, China, Myanmar, Thailand, South America....

Story: day 3, a wary ceb39 is invited by a middleaged and educated shop owner to sit down and is offered a used cup to drink tea (rude to refuse according to the guides). "Relax!". Fine, nice chat, then said mo' fo' leans back and says I should give money to his destitute friend here becoz I used his cup.

The incredible sight of Place Jemaa el-Fna on my first night will forever be etched in my memory, as will the cresent moon over the Koutoubia minaret, and the flavoursome fruit juices availble throughout the city. Unfortunately, so will the commercialised nature of its citizens. Marrakech, two days enuff I say.

Posted
19-Jul-2008 00:31
by: kate88

Posts: 375
Registered: 11/06/03

1

I can sympathise with you my friend, North African culture can either be an exhilarating experience or can totally drive you to distraction, and Morocco has long been known for producing the world’s highest quality hustlers, scamsters and astonishingly wily merchants (of all possible products). On my very first trip to Tangiers (and Morocco) we were with a guy from Oz who got off the boat, got ripped off for a Taxi to the youth hostel, got in an argument with a hustler and had his wallet nicked in the space of an hour. He promptly got straight back on the boat and left again!
Is too obvious to say you can’t judge a place by visiting one city, but believe me, Marrakesh is not representative of the rest of Morocco, just as London bares no similarities to my home in the North. In fact London feels as alien and hostile to me as Marrakesh does, even though I’m UK born and bread.
I don’t know if you persevered with Morocco and left the madness of Marrakesh to find it’s true joy, I hope you did and this nightmare was an isolated experience. If not, well…..give it another go and you might find something that makes the stress worthwhile.

Posted
19-Jul-2008 00:35
by: TimCullis

Posts: 1,167
Registered: 10/03/08

2

I used to love Marrakech, it was truly magical in the 1970s. Can you believe there was no traffic--hardly any cars, a few bicycles and donkeys. And it was tiny, about one-quarter the size of the sprawling metropolis it has become.

When I visited in the 1980s the hassle and scams were terrible and I came close to action I would have regretted a couple of times. All I can say is that it gets better when you've been a couple of times. I hardly ever get approached nowadays and don't get anywhere near the amount of hassle as some people. I'm not sure why; maybe something to do with my demeanour?

I just laugh good humouredly at some of the attempts. Other times I 'play rough', for example if someone draped a snake around my neck, I'd keep it and pretend to walk off with it.

I hardly visit nowadays. To get the best out of Morocco you need to avoid the big cities and hot tourist spots and find the genuine people.

Tim

"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)
Morocco GS Knowledgebase (motorcycling)

Posted
19-Jul-2008 02:09
by: sashac

Posts: 9,961
Registered: 17/08/07

3

Part of it is your how you look. My husband rarely gets bothered although he does so more in Marrakech, because he looks somewhat intimidating and looks like he always knows where he's going and what he's doing. If you want to try Morocco again we can all give you different ideas of where to go. Marrakech can be nice for a few days but there are definitely calmer, more mellow places in Morocco.

New Years resolutions? If I'm not going to do it for 365 days, why the hell would I start on the 366th?

Posted
19-Jul-2008 03:44
by: nusnus

Posts: 1,582
Registered: 01/09/06

4

I don't get hustled much in Marrakech either. It's down to attitude. Moroccans are very observant. There are three rules: play it cool, act confident, keep a sense of humour. Unless things have changed in Marrakech, Bab Boujeloud in Fes is far, far worse. Marrakech had a real problem some years ago. But if you stop and look at stuff, they will try and sell. They watch you as you come. I never, ever browse.

At least in Morocco you don't get the bakhshish trip. Egypt is a real pain for that. Plus all the cruise tourists just pay up and you have to argue over every paistre. I told someone I know who'd done a Nile cruise about my approach to commercial transactions in Egypt and he just cringed and said, "I dont know how you can."

I don't agree about the Marrakeshis, though. I have come across plenty of helpfulness and kindness in the streets. Guy: "What are you looking for?" Nusnus: "Yogurt. Bad stomach." Guy: "Go down there. No, just go down there." I find little shop with live yogurt.

Or the traffic jam rue Mouassine: a donkey, two bikes and a truck. I hang back for things to clear and feel this hand on my elbow, very gently pushing me forward. I turn and look into this beautiful old face. The guy nods for me to go on.

Moroccans are involved with other people, they have very little and basically they aren't materialistic but they understand human needs and desires. Don't knock it when those skills turn commercial. It has big rewards as well.

Posted
19-Jul-2008 14:20
by: ceb39

Posts: 20
Registered: 01/11/02

5

Hi,

I am certainly not judging all of Morocco by Marrakech. I should have mentioned that Marrakech was my last city after Tanger, Chefchaouen and Meknes. Even the legendary hustlers in Tanger ferry terminal did not eventuate. Chefchaouen and Meknes were great, chilled out places with no real hassles, maybe thats why Marrakech was all the more shocking for me.

Posted
19-Jul-2008 14:49
by: Berber_Adventures

Posts: 28
Registered: 19/07/08

6

"I am sorry, but no one seemed genuine in Marrakech who didn't see dirham notes hanging off you when you walked along."

Obviously, you had a bad experience, but I'm sure this description isn't universally applicable. As you admit, the guide books paint a beautiful picture of Marrakech...they're not all lying. There is a lot of beauty to the city and its people, but admittedly it can get lost in the mistranslation of cultures.

Let me explain. One thing you'll notice is that in the souks, it is not just tourists. In fact, there are just as many Moroccans as foreigners...especially at night in Djema Fina. What you may not have noticed is that Moroccans, TOO, have to bargain and, at times, enter into the tiresome charade of haggling over prices. It is a cultural game that is normal there. Now, Moroccans won't get the "snake charmer" treatment, for sure. But you'd be surprised that even Moroccans visiting Marrakesh from other parts of the country need something of a thick skin to deal with the souk dealers and opportunists. Like I said, at night the vast majority of people listening to the storytellers, watching the performers, and enjoying the music are Moroccans...all of whom are asked, like us, to pay for the experience.

Places like Marrakesh and the old city in Fes require some cultural background and readiness that's hard to acquire quickly. But there are beautiful people and experiences to be encountered.

Posted
19-Jul-2008 18:48
by: Fran_Bervard

Posts: 279
Registered: 15/06/08

7

Serves you right for being such bloody tourists.

"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to Man." (Iris Murdoch)

Posted
20-Jul-2008 00:38
by: Marocfan

Posts: 3,908
Registered: 13/07/03

8

As most who read this forum know, I love Marrakech but to each his-her own. I have never had the negative experiences the OP reports. Maybe it was his/her attitude.
And LOL about the comparison of what it was like in the 1970s. Nothing is the same as the 1970s...people complain about how great the "old" Honolulu was in the 70s...but life is change. Adapt to and enjoy it!
Or, just don't go back to a place you don't like.

"I am never gratuitously rude. My rudeness is carefully calibrated to the stupidity and obtuseness of the people I am dealing with." -- Adam Carr

Posted
20-Jul-2008 05:17
by: nusnus

Posts: 1,582
Registered: 01/09/06

9

I was there in the seventies. It was a pretty scruffy place. All we seemed to do was hang out, drink milkshakes and get high. Your expectations were low. Fes had a much bigger impact. I get more out of Marrakech now than I did then.

Posted
20-Jul-2008 09:19
by: Marocfan

Posts: 3,908
Registered: 13/07/03

10

I wish I could have visited Marrakech in the late 1940s when supposedly they still displayed the severed heads of bad guys on pikes in the Jemaa. Great photo possibilities! Ah for the good old days!

"I am never gratuitously rude. My rudeness is carefully calibrated to the stupidity and obtuseness of the people I am dealing with." -- Adam Carr

Posted
20-Jul-2008 15:33
by: nusnus

Posts: 1,582
Registered: 01/09/06

11

No shortage of candidates even today. Let me think...

Posted
21-Jul-2008 17:32
by: ceb39

Posts: 20
Registered: 01/11/02

12

I would go back to Marrakech for sure. And, were all tourists aren't we?

Posted
21-Jul-2008 19:07
by: kate88

Posts: 375
Registered: 11/06/03

13

Bring on the heads on pikes I say! Old school!

Posted
22-Jul-2008 00:22
by: catw

Posts: 1,974
Registered: 12/02/07

14

Yeah, Marrakech has considerably changed over the past ten years, and not for the best. I suggest you check Essaouira or Fès, you should still be able to see something more authentic for the time being.

Honestly the bigest pain in Marrakech are not the local touts, but the newly-rich jetsetters who have bought so many old palaces in the Medina, destroying the old fountains to replace them with ugly swimming pools, as well as the brainless people who have paid to have the palmtrees around the city decimated and replaced by giant Dallas-looking houses. They are the ones who destroyed the soul of the city.

Now as for being hassled... in Marrakech like in many places in the Middle-East, a lot depends on how you look like, meaning how you dress and how you behave. I am a white, 30-year old French woman and I have never been hassled in any Arabic country. Meanwhile, I have friends who are males full of muscle and who keep on being hassled. Why ? Because touts can tell in 30 seconds if you're the tourist type or not. Being dressed in a sensible way and watching people firmly when they interrupt you is everything. I guess it takes a bit of training but it's not that difficult.

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