Thorn Tree travel forum

1

"El impuesto es para los ninos, y el futuro de la ciudad!"

I'll be they said something like that, right?

2

It ain't just Ensenada, it's every port in Mexico. Here's another newspaper article:

$5-dollar cruise charge riles tourist sector

Story by : Joy Hepp

Beginning next summer, cruise passengers who visit Mexico will have
to pay 56 pesos if they want to set foot in the country.
The new law sailed through Congress last month but now members of
the country's tourism industry, and even some local officials, are
expressing their doubts.
"We're not quite sure how they're going to go about implementing the
tax, but if they're going to ask passengers to (pay) when they leave
the ship, then forget it," said Ivan Uriza, administrative and
finance manager of the Puerto Vallarta Port Authority. It's still
unclear if the tax will be absorbed into the price of the cruise,
like Mexico's 19.50-dollar visitors' fee (DNI), which is calculated
in the cost of individual flights.
Uriza and others worry that the new tax could affect Mexico's
standing as the world's top cruise destination. According to the
U.S. National Tour Association, last year more than six million
tourists took cruises to Mexico and spent an average 85 dollars a
day. Puerto Vallarta is among Mexico's top destinations and Uriza
said the city has a campaign to become a "home port" or jumping off
point similar to Miami or Los Angeles. He fears that this plan will
be in danger with the new law.
"It's not a question of whether or not the companies want to come to
Mexico, they love Mexico," he said. "The question is whether or not
they can make more money elsewhere."
Proponents of the bill say that over the course of a vacation,
paying 56 pesos is relatively insignificant – the equivalent of
buying a couple of Coronas. Not quite, said Uriza.
"What if you have a family of five or more and they charge you for
three or four different ports?" asked Uriza. "That adds up after a
while."
Not everyone, however, is worried about the new tax. John Russell
runs a tour company and Puerto Vallarta tourism website,
www.vallarta-info.com.
"It seems like a good idea to me," he said. "The majority of the
cruise ship passengers are responsible for spending money but
they're tightly regulated by cruise ships. A lot of the restaurants
have a special menu for the cruise ships and the stores likewise
pump up the prices to make up for what they pay the cruise lines to
get the customers in their shops."
The new tax is puzzling because it comes at a time when Caribbean
and Central American nations are offering cruise companies discounts
on docking fees for high passenger volume, noted Arturo Mussi Ganem,
vice president of Amepact, a Mexican business grouping that supports
the cruise sector. Talking to Vallartavive.com, Mussi said cruise
companies are upset at the measure, since they already pay a tax of
eight dollars per passenger in Mexico, as well as an annual fee of
25,000 to 35,000 dollars in "derechos" (rights) and around 17,000
pesos per docking to immigration and port authorities.
The proceeds from the tax are set to be divided between local
municipalities and the National Migration Institute.
The law will go into effect in July of next year barring an unlikely
veto from President Felipe Calderon. However, the president of the
Senate's tourism commission, Luis Alberto Coppola, is pushing to
have the bill postponed for three to four years until the law can be
implemented with clear rules because, he said, "there are
irresponsible mayors who are destined to use the resources for their
own personal gain."

3

This is a lot of fuss over nothing. Mexico's the most popular cruise ship destination in the World and a I doubt that potential passengers will cancel or not take trips stopping in Mexico because of a US$5 p.p. charge. As one of the articles mentions, however, there's concern in some quarters about how local/federal governments will use the new tax money. As for Ensenada being dropped as a destination/stop for cruise ships (at least one of the companies) I think that's probably more of an indication of the growing sophistication/demand of the cruise passengers who'd rather spend time further south than close to the USA border. Another unpopular stop is probably at the other end of the country, south on the Pacific Coast . . . at Tapachula (nearby); passengers there are still wondering why some ships heading through the Panama Canal stop there.

4

Quote

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"What if you have a family of five or more and they charge you for three or four different ports?" asked Uriza. "That adds up after a
while."

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I skipped over this part of the second article quickly when reading it. The implementation question is a good one. US$5 at one port, one time per entire trip, is one thing . . . US$5 p.p. at each port is something different. Passengers traveling the Mexican Riviera will probably have to pay more in total - if there's a per stop charge . . . because there are 4 or 5 stops along the way (depending upon the itinerary) and that could lead to an approx. US$25-30 charge during the trip. Cozumel is the most popular cruise stop, anywhere - and I don't think those short trips stop at more than one other port in Mexico, so the overall charge would be relatively insignificant. Those of us who travel into Mexico via air already pay hefty fees - the immigration/visit tax/fee and the taxes and security charges we pay to use the airports . . . fees I don't think cruise ship passengers pay.

5

In a recent meeting of all the cruise lines in Cozumel, Carnival execs, among others, warned Mexico that they are already the most expensive of all the ports to visit and they were risking having the ship lines look for other ports of call if they pass this addtional tax. Mexican officials chose to ignore the warning so it will be interesting to see where this leads.

6

Quote

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Mexico's 19.50-dollar visitors' fee (DNI), which is calculated

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I well remember the "Crisis" of the $11 a barrel oil in 1998 that trigered this fee....It is still not well administered if you drive or walk in or bus in. Having to find a bank that validates the dang thing is a drag, to say the least.

With oil at U$95, perhaps that "Crisis" is over, but we'll be paying this "Tax" forever.

Pernel S. Thyseldew
'DigThatCrazyFarOutPlanetMan'
"When you are down to a macrame g-string and a monkey on one shoulder and a parrot on the other ...then nobody will steal from you... except the PARROT thieves!"

7

This reminds me of the old saying....."Stepping over the silver dollars to pick up nickels".

Pernel S. Thyseldew
'DigThatCrazyFarOutPlanetMan'
"When you are down to a macrame g-string and a monkey on one shoulder and a parrot on the other ...then nobody will steal from you... except the PARROT thieves!"

8

The less tourists the better...the sooner these fake tourist beach towns return to humble fishing villages the better...the sooner the gringified prices return to what Mexicans can really afford the better...that way I can live a lot better thank you.

9

Someone who takes a Carnival 7 day Mexican Riviera trip and would pay $1179 for a room with balcony. this charge would make his ticket jump to $1194...........that does not count the new (as of Feb.08) $5 a day fuel surcharge per person....

62 going on 16
---------------
trust me,I have a plan

10

The tax alone will not add up to a big increase as a percentage of the total trip cost but the psycological cost on the tourist is significant. Add to this the upcoming increases in airfare due to increasing fuel cost, probable increases in prices for the cruises themselves due to rising fuel cost and supply cost and a very weak dollar. With all these factors it would be very possible that there could be a significant drop-off in cruise passengers. Even for the port cities that don't lose entire shiploads of passengers, a loss of 5-10% in visitation added to a similar reduction in spending by those who do come could make a major impact on local economies.

11

#8, I think that the thousands, (perhaps millions) of Mexicans (and their families) that rely on the tourist industry to put food on the table would disagree that it would be better for the tourist industry to leave. As I am positive you know (becuase it looks like you live in Mexico), the locals are not so much affected by the "gringified prices" because they don't eat/shop at those places - so a decrease in those prices does not benefit them - in fact it hurts them because it means less money in the local economy, and a decreasing tide lowers all boats.

And, if that did happen, places like Puerto Vallarta would not magically turn back into little fishing villages, the high unemployment and crumbling infrastructure would likely lead to greater crime and poverty. Cities like Detroit didn't turn back into quant farming towns when major industries left town. In other words, it would not be a good thing for most people living in those cities - whether they work in the tourism industry or not.