Thorn Tree travel forum

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Just Read some of the Recent Tibetan Info and you will know....

http://viewtibetadventuretours.blogspot.com/

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Not the most helpful of answers. Do you or don't you need the permit? I called the supposed Tibetan Tourist Bureau here in Shanghai and they would get me the permit only if I joined one of their tours. Some sites say you can get a permit in 2 days, they said a week. Some places say that your travel agent will get it. Mine doesn't do that but is happy to book the plane ticket to Lanzhou and back from Lhasa. Is there any way to just buy a permit without getting into a whole package tour??? There must be a way. I just need help. Obviously, I have read lots of threads and none gives me the answer I need or I would not have asked.

jill boniske
shanghai, prc

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." Brendan Gill

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Some of the recent posts should have given you answers as there's been so many of them lately. Most likely those who know have already answered other posts.

We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

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according to the law you need a permit
and the permit is issued only for group travellers

if your not checked ok, but if you are checked.....

a fine - money - is for sure

the time it takes to get the permit depends upon the agency and the political situation

you can only be told what happened ,none of us is able to look into the future or what might happen to you in specific

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To make it legally you need a tour. Normally its straight forward, you get an agency to arrange a ticket (flight or train) and permit and off you go. For the last few weeks the situation has been different. The authorities are right now demanding you to join a tour to get a permit. So no permits for individual travellers right now. But people manage to get to Lhasa without a permit. try to get someone to buy a trainticket for you, thats the most easy way. If no luck in Lanzhou head to Xining and try there.

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I understand OP's desire for every question to have a single, clear, straightforward, detailed, specific, reliable, guaranteed answer.

Unfortunately, though some information is clear for visiting Tibet, most isn't.

And it sometimes even the clear part changes. Sometimes suddenly. Without official announcement. YMMV.



Traditionally, travelers haven't needed to book a tour to travel to Tibet legally (except entering from Nepal).
The government doesn't require anything of the traveler other than the TTB permit to visit the Lhasa & Shigatse areas, and an Alien Travel Permit (ATP) for most other areas of Tibet.

Recently, however, the government is cracking down due to the protest at the EBC and, likely, the tension regarding the US honoring the Dalai Lama.
So independent travel outside of the Lhasa and Shigatse areas is sharply curtailed, officially requiring an accompanying guide.

Also, travel agents are more acutely aware that the government considers them liable for the behavior of the people for whom they get TTB permits.
Therefore, more travel agencies are insisting on a tour package to help get you the TTB permit, though you will still be mostly on your own upon arrival, perhaps assuming that folks who can fork over for a tour are less likely to be protesters and get them in trouble.

Many travel agencies have always required a tour purchase to help you get the permit, for the agency to make money.
Some insist on you also buying at least tranportation from them (air ticket or train ticket), again for the agency to make money.
Some don't insist on you buying anything else from them, but add a service fee on top of the TTB permit.
You can get a TTB permit from other places than travel agencies, such as certain hotels in certain cities.

You can search here at TT about the experience of other travelers with different organizations and agencies in different places.
Be sure to check the date of the posting, because of the recent issues and their consequences.



Some agencies take longer to turn around a permit than others.
You can read here at TT from other travelers abou their experience in different cities and with different agencies.
Since it's low season now, the permits may be able to be turned around faster now than in summer.

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You can arrange with some agencies/organizations in advance to process your permit and tickets without you being there -- You can pay by email/phone with a credit card, and pick up the permit and ticket when you get to the departure city.
Do a search here at TT to read about what other travelers have done.



Many travelers are not given the original or even a copy of their TTB permit but rather just the permit number. This seems to be sufficient.



IIRC, some travelers by air have said their permit was checked at the departure airport.

Many travelers at TT entering by train have reported that their TTB permit was not checked getting on the train, while on the train, upon arrival in Lhasa or while in Lhasa.
But that doesn't guarantee that your permit won't be checked.

No post I have seen at TT have reported on someone without a permit being checked on the train to Lhasa or in Lhasa for a permit and what may have resulted from such a check.
No post I have seen, therefore, talks about how much the fine is for not having a TTB permit or whether the traveler is "asked" to leave Tibet.

So all I have to share with you is what happens when a traveler arrives in Ali, in far western Tibet, by entering Tibet without a permit from Kashgar or Hotan in Xinjiang.
Hundreds of visitors now enter this way each year, as can be seen in the big log book at the PSB in Ali. (I was told it is difficult and time-consuming for travel agents in Xinjiang to get TTB permits in advance from the PSB in Ali. Therefore, while the agencies go through the effort for high-priced package tours, they encourage independent travelers to just take the bus from Karghilik, which doesn't check for permits, and go to the PSB in Ali within a day of arrival.)

In Ali, you goes to the PSB, you state that you have arrived without a permit, and you are made to pay a Y300 fine (which used to be closer to Y500), plus a Y50 fee to get an Alien Travel Permit (ATP) for traveling in certain closed areas in far western Tibet. You fill out the form, sign the book, get the ATP -- but no TTB permit -- and are free to go. Perhaps some travelers have left Ali without going to the PSB, paying the fine and getting the ATP, but they haven't reported their experience at TT, AFAIK. But in far western Tibet there are several roadblocks where permits are checked, including an especially thorough one in Saga, so I am guessing they were probably made to pay a fee (perhaps higher) at the PSB in Saga or perhaps turned back to Ali.

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You will not be able to buy a train ticket by yourself at a train station in Lanzhou or anywhere else to Lhasa without having a TTB permit.
I have not read any report of official travel agencies buying a train ticket to Lhasa for people with out a TTB permit.
But others at TT report having been successful in asking a Chinese resident to buy the train ticket for them -- perhaps someone at their hotel, for example.

Appropriate caution is always advisable in handing over a large amount of cash to a random stranger, of course. No one has reported such a problems at TT, but it might be difficult to explain to a police officer that you want the person -- if they are still in your sight or able to be found -- to give you back the money you gave him to buy a ticket illegally for you...

Also, keep in mind that, even though there is a tiny risk of your ticket-buying helper being caught for this illegal act, the consequences for him would undoubtedly be much more severe than any wrist-slap you as a tourist would be given.

So be discreet.
For example, don't go to the ticket window with him.
Don't pay him in an obvious way in or near the train station.
Choose your desired train time, date, and berth type -- and choose alternatives in case your first or second or third choices of times, date and berth type aren't available and have these clearly written down for your helper in Chinese.
Don't post his name and/or contact information publicly.

(See other posts about getting hard seat tickets in case hard sleeper tickets are unavailable for your time and date of choice and negotiating with the train staff to trade up, since there are usually berths available except in holiday times and very high season.)

The train ticket does not have a name or passport number or any other identifying information, so it is completely transferrable.

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I'm not a travel agent, nor do I live in Tibet, so all the above information is from what I've experienced in Tibet and what I've read here at the ThornTree and elsewhere. No single, clear, straightforward, detailed, specific, reliable, guaranteed answer.

Hope this helps anyway.

-- Cat www.centralasiatraveler.com

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Quote

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I understand OP's desire for every question to have a single, clear, straightforward, detailed, specific, reliable, guaranteed answer.

Unfortunately, though some information is clear for visiting Tibet, most isn't.

And it sometimes even the clear part changes. Sometimes suddenly. Without official announcement. YMMV.

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I believe that CentralAsia_traveler got the best answer for your question.

Extensive FAQ about travel situation and permit restrictions in Tibet
Spinn Cafe , Lhasa, Tibet - we are based in Lhasa
Spinning in Tibet (ISBN: 9789881805966), published in Hong Kong.

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Thanks CentralAsia_traveler

jill boniske
shanghai, prc

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." Brendan Gill