2 months in china/sea with toddler

Replies: 10 - Last Post: 06-Nov-2007 03:13 Last Post By: londoasli

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londoasli

04-Nov-2007 04:07
Posts: 8

2 months in china/sea with toddler

Hi guys,

I am planning a two month trip to China and (perhaps) parts of SEA, and (this is where is gets hard!) and am planning to bring my daughter, who will be three by then.

Originally, it was supposed to be just a short trip to Beijing to brush up on my Mandarin before sitting a translators test, but after reading up on China travel here on the thorn tree, i was so inspired by it all, i thought why not make a big trip out of it. Anyway, ive also been reading up on the travelling with kids threads, which have been extremely helpful, but am now in the early stages of trip planning and am hoping to get some comments on my basic route plan and perhaps more specific info on travelling with a toddler (and no other adults) in China.

China seems such a huge country with so much to offer, so im having a lil trouble prioritising and figuring out what would be the best route. Basically, i want to spend a bit of time practising my mandarin in beijing/ northern china, see a few 'major' sights (am interested in mountains, historical sights, anywhere thats not too much hassle with a toddler.) Budget isnt overly tight, as i have a year to save for this trip, however i am a 'backpacker by nature' and would prefer to eat local, shop at supermarkets, stay in small hostels, in basic, albeit comfortable enough conditions.

So heres what ive been thinking:

1. Fly (from australia) into bangkok (why bangkok, you ask? well because the flights seem to be a hell of a lot cheaper than to beijing and i wouldnt mind seeing a bit of thailand, as ive never been there, as well as doing a bit of overland travel on the way up).

2. spend about a week in thailand, fly into Hanoi. (is it true that you can get these tickets for around $100?) From Hanoi, travel overland (train?) to Kunming. Is this land crossing tolerable for a toddler? I mean, is it fairly straight forward, or lots of hassling around, standing in huge queues for hours?

Now, this is where the trip starts to get fuzzy....

i saw some pictures of a friend's trip to NW Yunnan, the mountain scenery looks absolutely AMAZING. However, what is transportation up there like? At the risk of sounding like an idiot, is altitude sickness a problem? I suspect not, but from what ive seen, those mountains look fairly high :/ ....Although Id really like to see this part of China, if its too much hassle and pretty uncomfortable for my daughter, id rather just leave it out for now.

After that, i thought perhaps we'd make our way up to Chengdu, Xi'an, then Beijing. This is VERY tentative, as I said, things as still in the early stages of research/ planning. Maybe a cruise along the Yantze?? Arrrgggg!!!!Too many decisions!!!!

After that, i wouldnt mind taking the ferry over to South Korea/ Japan for a look around, followed by perhaps a flight back to australia departing from Shanghai.

I plan to leave in either september/ october, and have two months in which to complete the trip. Is this feasible? Although my daughter is a 'born traveller'- very easy going and adaptable, i want to take things fairly slow, not attempt to squeeze in too much, AKA id like to make the trip as pleasant and enjoyable for her as possible. If shes happy, then im happy.

Here are a few other questions, hopefully you guys wont mind sharing your time and wisdom on these matters!

- We are pescetarians (vegetarians who eat fish/ seafood) are we going to have an awful lot of trouble eating in China? If so, should I bring a portable stove to prepare meals? I am also a bit of a 'whole foods freak' and quite 'anti-MSG/ preservative', especially where my daughter is concerned.

- My daughter holds an indonesian passport- anyone know the story with visas for China in this case?

hope ive made a fair degree of sense in this post, apologies if not. Hope i havent left too much out either ... Any suggestions/ advice/ revised route plans would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance everyone :)

everbrite

04-Nov-2007 10:03
Posts: 16,252

Too many questions.

Hanoi to Kunming is two trains if I recall. People on the train will entertain your daughter. Trains are better than buses for kids as they can walk around.

Check with a travel medicine clinic regarding high altitudes and children or ask on the Health branch where there are some very knowledgeable people.

Chinese (and Thai for that matter) generally do NOT understand vegetarian. You can order something, question them thoroughly and be told that there is no meat but when it arrives there is meat. This website by a TT member should be helpful: Information for Vegetarians Travelling in China and there is one for Thailand by Chanchao (I believe).

Trying looking at the website of the Chinese embassy in Indonesia for information about Inodnesia citizens traveling to China: Chinese missions overseas.

Towards the top of your post you mention being in Northern China and Beijing and then indicate that you want to travel to Kunming, Yunnan and Chengdu none of which are in the north.

FYI Thai Orient is intending to start budget flights from Bangkok to Chengdu. Air Asia operated between BKK and Hanoi and other places as well. Also book mark these sites for future reference:
which budget,
flybudget,
cheap0,
europebyair.com,
Air Ninja
openjet, and
asia budget airlines

Not sure that too many hostels will allow young children.

When traveling with children this age it is imperative that you plan some down time for them to visit and park and run around. Also don't think that you will accomplish anywhere near what you do when you travel alone. Everything will take longer than you expect. Given the age of your daughter, I would not plan to move every couple of days. Instead try to spend longer periods in fewer places. Some kids don't adjust well to being on the move all the time.

Ruth, mother of three grown children

First check: Everbrite's travel pages, the New RU sticky,and New RU train sticky

Since I have taken the time to answer your question, it would be nice if you took the time to respond as to whether the information was helpful.

jiejie

04-Nov-2007 16:13
Posts: 1,148

In two months, you are trying to cover way too much with a toddler in tow. If you want to do that much China, skip Korea/Japan--I think you'll find it won't help your budget either. I also wouldn't advise the Yangtze cruise (boring and except on the expensive "western tourist" boats, uncomfortable). I agree with advice above not to keep moving every couple of days, but maybe pick your "base" spots and use them as mini-hubs of travel. Bangkok to Hanoi is generally more than $100 airfare, especially for one-way tickets. With the baht's strength against most currencies these days, if you are buying tickets in Bangkok, you may find them closer to

Also agree with #1's advice on trains over buses for comfort (also safer and normally run very much to schedule), and vegetarian issues. For longer distances or connections that are tortuous by train, just fly--it's not that expensive and Chinese fly on a last minute basis all the time. No, don't bring a portable stove. Get someone to write down the characters for "no MSG" and learn to pronounce them correctly in Mandarin--I do this all the time and have a very high % of success in having restaurants honor this (I get a splitting headache if they cheat and don't honor it.) Preservatives--avoid Chinese packaged processed foods when possible, but realize that there is no way you will be able to "go organic" as even fresh fruits and vegetables generally are loaded with pesticides. If this is that big an issue with you for your daughter, China is not the place for her. I do disagree with #1's advice on air: DO NOT FLY Thai Orient air or any subsidiaries on ANY route in ANY country, no matter how cheap the tickets--this is the parent company of the plane that crashed recently in Phuket, and comments from people who have been behind the scenes reflect a totally unsafe operation.

The daughter's visa thing may be an issue as her passport is from a developing country, as I get the impression that yours is different and Chinese immigration rules may not match up for the two countries. As Indonesia offers visa-on-arrival for Chinese citizens, I wouldn't be surprised if China reciprocates for Indonesians. However, if you have to get a visa in advance for yourself, get the hassle over with and also do it for your daughter in advance.

jiejie

04-Nov-2007 16:19
Posts: 1,148

One more thing: Be aware that the first week of October is one of China's big national holidays, and many people are on the move within the country and to/from. Transportation is crowded and tickets harder to get (especially train and international flights) and prices for accommodation, etc. go up. Do not plan on taking any language courses during this time, as most businesses and organizations will take the holiday off. The rush will start around Sept 26-ish and will not let up until around October 8. If you will be in China then, this would be a good time to stay put in one place. If you need to move, the middle of the holiday (October 3-5) has somewhat of a lull for transportation. You could time your arrival for China around October 10 and go from there. However, north China (incl Xi'an, Beijing) will start to get cold at the end of October/beginning of November, and you'll need warmer clothing such as heavy jackets or light coats.

jiejie

04-Nov-2007 16:23
Posts: 1,148

aargh! can't think straight this morning! Tickets Bangkok-Hanoi running more like Baht 5500-8000 dep on airline (Vietnam or Thai), which I guess is about 50-100% more than your number.

londoasli

04-Nov-2007 19:42
Posts: 8

Thanks so much for the replies guys, your comments and suggestions are invaluable.

Yes, apologies Ruth, for the long winded post and sheer amount of questions- i guess i was a little overconcerned about not writing enough info....

Quote
Towards the top of your post you mention being in Northern China and Beijing and then indicate that you want to travel to Kunming, Yunnan and Chengdu none of which are in the north.

No, sorry if i was a little unclear here. I know these are not in the north, what i was intending to do was travel UP to BEijing from the south, eg, through kunming, north Yunnan followed by chengdu and then up to Beijing.....

However....

As jiejie states, i think i am being a little overly ambitious for this trip and am trying to cover way too many destinations. As i said, these plans were extremely tentative, So after reading the above replies, now Im thinking something more along the lines of:

-Fly into SHANGHAI (or perhaps HONG KONG would be better? What do you guys think? Too much overland travel from hong kong up to Beijing? On the other hand, Im sure my daughter wouldnt object to a side trip to HK disneyland... :) I know we need seperate visas...

- Followed by NANJING, XIAN, BEIJING (not sure about if the order route is ok here...)

- then very short side trip to SOUTH KOREA

- quick visit to JAPAN

- back to SHANGHAI, fly home.

Does this sound more do-able? Thailand and Yunnan can wait for another trip... I suppose japan and Korea could too, but Im REALLY keen to go to these places and budget isnt TOO much of an obstacle this time around.

PS: jiejie, I speak fluent mandarin, so maybe asking for no MSG wont be a problem,just concerned that perhaps dishes were pre-cooked? maybe already had MSG added to them? As you can see i have absolutely no idea, as i have never been to China :) hmm, yes, thx for pointing out the national holiday, ill try and time things so that we'll be in a fairly interesting place and be able to stay for at least that whole week....

Any further comments or suggestions are much appreciated...thanks heaps- you guys are legends :)

Yinjun

05-Nov-2007 07:03
Posts: 34

Unfortunately there is no direct train between Hanoi and Kunming now, but you can take a overnight train from Hanoi to Laocai, then cross border to Hekou to transfer a bus to Kunming.

Cheers!

everbrite

05-Nov-2007 16:08
Posts: 16,252

Where is home? Why make the side trips to South Korea and Japan? Perhaps see if you can get stopovers on the way to China and the way from China and do a few days in Seoul and a few days in Tokyo before and after China.

Ruth

londoasli

05-Nov-2007 20:30
Posts: 8

Hi Ruth,

Home is perth, western australia.... The reason i wanna do those side trips is mainly as i said, because id really like to see a bit of those 2 countries... Just figured since i would be up that way, would be more interesting and cheaper to do the trip from china, as opposed to stopovers. Feel free to correct me if im wrong.... :)
Thanks...

everbrite

06-Nov-2007 00:23
Posts: 16,252

Flights to and from China are NOT necessarily cheaper. To the best of my knowledge, there are NO budget airlines to either Korea or Japan from China. I don't think that either of these two places will be cheap trips. I would encourage you to look at flight costs now before dividing up your time and making plans. As I said, your best bet might be one of these two as an extended stopover from Perth.

Ruth

londoasli

06-Nov-2007 03:13
Posts: 8

yeah i meant taking the ferry over there, not flying:

Quote
After that, i wouldnt mind taking the ferry over to South Korea/ Japan for a look around, followed by perhaps a flight back to australia departing from Shanghai.

Anyway, as you said obviously i still have a lot of research to do before i can make any decisions, so i better get onto it.. Thanks for your help Ruth :)

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