Thorn Tree travel forum

1

Not sure where you are living in China but you might want to get on a forum at thebeijinger.com and ask your question. There are alot of expats on that forum who might be able to give you specific help as they will have had to deal with "Z" visa's. (the website used to be www.thatsbj.com but recently changed). I know that there is a similar forum for Shanghai but not sure what the address is - sorry.

Good luck!

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"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams"-Eleanor Roosevelt

2

1) yes and no.
What company or field are you involved in? Does your company know that you don't have a degree?

In the case of teaching, you are supposed to have a degree/ experience to get a Z-visa, but certain schools have been able to get around this rule; however, in Beijing they are cracking down on this.

2) I'm not sure. At my university, we have a few visiting professors (1 semester) who are getting a stipend for their lectures.

Also check out Chinese forum

3

Working on an F visa is technically illegal and the company will not be paying tax at all for you doing it.

Ask to see their certificate from the labour bureau to see if they can legally hire a foreigner otherwise there is no way to get a Z either with or without a degree.

It is still possible to get one without a degree but perhaps not in Beijing as #3 said. Someone based in Beijing would be better to answer that. Outside Beijing the rules are more bendable depending on how much "relationship" the company has with the local government.

Don't let your visa expire or you will get in more trouble than you would like. If desperate and want to stay then you can get a visa easily in HK.

4

You will need a diploma in most cases to be considered a Foreign Expert unless it is in a field that China really needs where a diploma is not required, but your "Special Skill" is. Without getting into trivial details about the difference between being a F. Expert and obtaining a visa, you are already in China. Why not have your company apply for residence status now?

Three months probation sounds sketch, are you teaching? Whats your field? Alot of people work on F visa, technically you are not supposed to earn a wage, however, its done often. You just dont have any rights as an "employee."

I'd avoid thatsbj as there seems to be a number of pissing contests going on there about who is more worthy to procure visa advise.

Cheers

International Travel and Business Consultant
International Travel, Medical Insurance
China Visa Service
ESL Teacher Cafe

5

Since you don't say what your type of company/position is, and the others above have responded and covered the issue for a teaching position, I'll address the issue for a NON-teaching position/company: If you are classified as doing an "internship" for the first 3 months and being paid a "stipend" then the F can be the right visa, and some companies may prefer to do things this way before they fully commit to getting you a work permit/Residence permit/employment contract, especially if they are unsure about your skills or your fitting into their operations. In such a case, taxes are not an issue for this initial period, but it would be a good idea to protect yourself and have them write up a document for you to keep stipulating the internship and period of time it covers. The Chinese government generally does not require foreigners to have degrees/diplomas for non-teaching positions, but leave the criteria to the hiring company. (In practice, most foreigners with any sort of real job DO have a university degree already or a specialized skill set.) I can see this scenario possibly applying to many younger foreigners who have not yet completed their university-level studies, or who took a non-university path and have some interesting and marketable skills but not a lot of working experience.

For a more experienced foreigner with proven ability, it's a bit more of a stretch to do the internship scenario, and the Chinese government may also see it this way. Two things to watch out for: 1) It's possible this company wants 3 months of free services without any long-term commitment. This may or may not be aligned with your goals and expectations. Even more likely if it is a company doing a lot of short-term project type work. 2) It's possible this company wants longer-term employment from you without ever paying taxes for you, and have no intention of ever getting you the proper work/Residence permits that permit full employment. This is a situation you are advised to avoid.

The whole "Foreign Expert" thing is a holdover from the old days, applies to teaching positions, and is very rarely seen anymore in the corporate/commercial business world in China.

6

As usual, jiejie offers up a really cogent analysis. Although you don't explicitly say, by checking your previous posts it could be assumed that your new job is indeed teaching English. Being in Beijing, being on "probation" with an F Visa, and being without a degree (as you roundabout imply) raises all sorts of red flags...at least for me. As others have said, if your company has pull with the PSB nothing is impossible, but in terms of issuing Z Visas, Beijing isn't the most welcoming of places for folks without experience or the right documents. If you feel comfortable with your company and you are getting paid, by all means stick it out...but also remember they could dump you like the proverbial hot potato and never look back.

7

Very good information above.
Do ask for your pay every two weeks. Get everything in writing. It may not be worth the paper its written on, but it will give you some piece of mind.
Also, ask other people working for this company whether or not they had the same experience with regards to visas.

cheers from Ruth

8

Heh heh. Peace of mind.

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