Thorn Tree travel forum

1

Thank you very much for posting this mads8. The more the truth is exposed, the better it will be for the elephants hopefully. After all, it is the tourist industry that is feeding this cruelty. I imagine that if most tourists knew what they were supporting they'd be very upset.

Here's another disturbing glimpse of the way monkeys and other animals are treated in Thailand.

Thanks again for spreading the word!

2

Is it very different that for domesticating horses, though?

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3

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Is it very different that for domesticating horses, though?

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I am personally against brutalizing any animals for any reason. Didn't the Native Americans prove that horses could be 'broken' without beating them?

Does anyone knows of any nation that rides elephants without making them go through this brutal treatment, I'd be very glad to hear about it. If it turns out that they can't be taught without beating them, then they shouldn't be ridden... in my opinion.

4

I have a simple view about all of this, it's utterly stupid. I think I have been to the same outfit (not sure though, but it was also near Chiang Mai) And at first site, they seem to treat the animals correct, if you look further you might get a different opinion. I refused to join my friends in riding an elephant.

5

Chanchao, it is very easy and straightforward to train even the largest horse without beating it - without ever striking it or hurting it in any way.

There is no great mystery or secret about it.

6

I think that you'll find that many of the more intelligent animals (elephants, horses, Texans) can be trained in a more compassionate way.

I wonder how of of the brutal treatment that animals get in Thailand is related to the reincarnation theme.... meaning, a lot of Thais think that you are being punished for past life bad deeds if you come back as an animal. This sounds pretty stupid, but I've heard Thais talk like this.

7

I couldn't help but give my 2 cents on this one as I have horses and am a vet student. Even my stallion that was never formally 'broken in' (trained from a week old) can get a bit cheeky at times but wouldn't dare throw me off.

#2 'breaking in' a horse is way old school. I will be more blunt and say it's stupid. You can start training a horse straight after it's born.

Anyway I don't think anyone can even compare the way a horse is broken in with the way an elephant seems to be 'broken in' (Read:tortured) and I don't mean tortured like a horrible corporate-make you work 60 hour weeks and beat your spirit into complacency torture either.

Horses aren't endangered, why the hell is anyone allowed to 'train' or 'break in' an endangered animal anyway?

And I agree the elephant nature park is OP.
That lady is doing some awesome things for elephants even though she's been shunned by a lot of Thai's who would rather be mai pen rai about it until elephants don't exist in Thailand anymore rather than deal with a seriously endangered species.

8

Thanks for posting Mads8. Now I have no longer an urge to ride an elephant, so you have made at least one person change mind :-)

9

OP or anyone - Is there any way of finding out how the Elephant was trained? or is pretty safe to assume that they have all been treated in this way?

Sounds like a pretty weak question when you throw it out there but my wife and I were thinking of Riding Elephants on Ko Lanta, but this post will make me think again.

10

Is there anywhere you can go in Chiang Mai or elsewhere in Thailand that you can get close to elephants and other wildlife that has treated them with respect?

11

My understanding is that elephants are disappearing from the wild and more and more showing up at tourist areas,these elephant of course need to be domesticated in order to earn their keep.The locals would probably kill them if they remained in the wild as they do cause agricultural damage.That said I'm sure that some training techniques maybe to extreme but I've never seen any mistreatment to any of these animals in my limited exposure to them or noticed any wounds on their body's from possible beatings.

12

Hi, I have been to two elephant camps near and around the Chaing Mai area- these are mostly retired logging elephants that would not have much hope of surviving on their own given the dwindling habitat and poaching, etc. Prior, I went to Nepal to an elephant breeding sanctuary and recently to Bali where they have an elephant sanctuary for rescued, abandoned and abused elephants from Java, etc. In each, I was able to interact with several elephants including babies and younger ones (which has always been more important to me than the elephant rides (although I have done a few). I think the treatment of the elephants really depends on the Mahouts that are assigned to caring for them. Some Mahouts are so gentle, kind and proud of their elephants (I think the majority probably fall in this realm). You can note the scarring on the top of the elephants' heads and bodies, and how the chain fits around their legs, and if the elephants appear happy or not. I witnessed what I consider to be excessive force from one Mahout in Nepal, but that very same day, I was touched by the connection and non-verbal communication another Mahout had with his elephant. In Chaing Mai, some of the elephants seemed to absolutely enjoy their time painting and playing their musical instruments and appeared to want to get it just right, others didn't look that interested. Others seemed to enjoy kicking the football more than others, and had what could only be considered to be a huge grin. Some elephants just want to eat, and don't show much interest in interacting, while others gain a moment of eye-contact to check you out and fill your clothing or shoes with their trunk. I could be wrong, but I don't think people are getting rich raising and caring for the elephants, I believe there must be a heart-interest that is felt in order for those to commit their lives to doing this type of work. I agree with the most recent entry, if elephants are going to have a chance for survival in this century and next, they have to be docile enough to live in captivity, which generally means doing shows or services for tourists. If they do not submit to their Mahouts, they are at risk of not being able to be cared for. I am currently scheduled to do a 3-Day Mahout Training in Lampang, which I know will be emotionally, spiritually, and physically challenging for me to experience whatever may happen, including visiting an elephant hospital. But... When you love elephants, you need to go where they are and risk experiencing an array of emotions, including even a broken heart.

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My understanding is that elephants are disappearing from the wild and more and more showing up at tourist areas,these elephant of course need to be domesticated in order to earn their keep.

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Those are two very distinctly different circumstances. The one is against the law as elephants are a protected species. This problem is due to a total lack of law enforcement, stemmed from a deep disinterest in anything that doesn't directly benefit the individuals who are supposed to be protecting these magnificent animals.

If, as you suggest, the only way that elephants are going to survive in the wild is to domesticate them (which I wholeheartedly disagree with the basic premise) then that's a very sad statement about the human race.

As #12 points out, some elephants 'seem' to be treated fairly and 'seem' to react to the positive care in a positive manner, thus, to some degree, proving that it is NOT necessary to beat them in order to get them to behave.

What/who do you want to support? Why should mahouts who abuse their elephants be rewarded with tourist money? Why can't the mahouts who beat their elephants be held accountable as it seems to be possible to have the elephants do what you want them to do without brutalizing them?

My vote is for stopping elephant riding as you don't know who is properly caring for the animals and who is not. If the government had any compassion (which they obviously don't), they would monitor the way elephants are treated and punish those who abuse their elephants and imprison anyone who takes an elephant from the wild in order to exploit them through the tourism industry.

14

Taken from The Nation: 2 elephants at Night Safari die

Two elephants at Chiang Mai's Night Safari died last month, while three others have fallen ill due to bad digestion resulting from eating the wrong kind of grass, resident veterinarians said Tuesday.

Suphoj Maythaphirat, a senior official, said Night Safari animal keepers were partly at fault for not screening the feed bought from villagers, adding that elephants should not eat too much old grass in a single sitting.

Phang Joi and Phang Grandma died late last month after succumbing to extremely bad digestion, while three other elephants are recovering from the same symptoms. Suphoj said only soft grass will be fed to the ill elephants. They will also be given more water to drink.

Suphoj said insecticide in the grass - bought regularly from three communities in Tambon Mae Hia, Suthep and Nong Khwai - could be a reason for the deaths and that tests were currently underway.
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"Night Safari animal keepers were partly at fault" No, they are fully at fault!! That's their job. If they don't know how to do their job or are too busy to check the food that they're giving to the animals that they are supposed to be taking care of, they shouldn't have that job... geez. It's always someone else's responsibility isn't it.