Thorn Tree travel forum

1

Hitching is a practicle alternative, your profile doesn't say male or female but obviously if you're a single female then don't hitch.

I found it the single most easiest way to get around far far west sichuan all the way out to the tibetan border, its legal, or at least not illegal in china, but illegal for foreigners in tibet,

and despite all the absolute crap people carp on about, its no more dangerous than catching a chinese bus, as the biggest danger to ones physical well being is still gunna be going over a cliff either way,

while hitching i got a lift in more forms of transport than i thought possible, i crossed a 5000 meter mountain pass while getting very drunk on biojio(a kinda pure spirit, very cheap, tastes kinda like metho) - with the truck driver, on another trip was given a 2 hour lift up into the hills with a peasant family on a trailer on the back of a tractor (i think they only stopped as a joke),also a lift on a moterbike and taken home to meet the family then too, and once a lift with a policeman of some sort who even tried to kidnap a couple of tibetan peasant girls, who where washing clothes at a stream, for me and the japanese backpacker i was traveling with that day, they sprinted for it when he stopped and put the siren on to get their attention, though for the rest of the trip i was kinda disturbed that this drunk cop in a new 4WD had scared the shit out of these two girls,

some people will charge you for the lift and some just give you a lift cos the average farmer or truck driver has never seen a whitey before and they just want a closer look, if they charge its negotiable and normally less than the equivalent busfare anyhow

And the longest i walked for before getting a lift would never have been more than half a dozen cars on the quieter back roads

2

Yes, it's possible to go from Kashgar via Hotan through Qinghai via Golmud to Lhasa, but it's a little complicated. Here are two links with detailed information on going the other direction. Also, I'll give you a description of information for going your direction.

Golmud -- Huatugou -- Ruoqiang

Update: Transportation Xining - Xinjiang

I'm developing on-line travel guides for Hotan, Keriya / Yutian, Cherchen / Qiemo, and Charklik / Ruoqiang to add to my Niya / Minfeng guide that is up at Niya / Minfeng - A Tourist Guide. If you want travel information, including maps, hotels, restaurants, sights, and transport, I can send you my drafts for these other citites. Just send me a PM. These will help with at least some of the overnights you'll need to spend along the way. But there are also many interesting sights to see along the way, if you have a few extra days.

A final option is to fly from Kashgar or Hotan to Urumqi (several daily flights from each city) and from Urumqi to Chengdu (the best of several domestic options) and from Chengdu to Lhasa, and then take it easy there the first few days as you acclimate. If you have any altitude health problems in Lhasa, they have hospitals, medication and altitude chambers.

Part 1 -- Getting from Kashgar to Charklik / Ruoqiang

From Kashgar, you'll take a bus going to Hotan. There are many daily buses, 520 km, 7-10 hours (7 hours is the express, luxury seat bus).

From the Hotan Main Bus Station, you'll need to take the #10 city bus to the East Bus Station.

From the East Bus Station, you'll need to get a ticket for a bus to Cherchen / Qiemo (605 km, Y97, 11 hours). There's only one bus per day, and I believe it leaves in the morning. You could ask a travel agent in Kashgar to call and ask the schedule for you.

A faster, more flexible, but more expensive way to get to Cherchen / Qiemo is to buy a bus ticket on an express bus from Kashgar to Korla / Kuerle, but tell the driver, when you get on, that you want to get off the bus in Niya / Minfeng, 294 km past Hotan.

From Niya / Minfeng, I was told there are six daily buses to Cherchen / Qiemo. Probably several of these buses do not start in Niya / Minfeng but also in Hotan and Keriya / Yutian. You may need to work with your phrase book and the bus station staff to know when these would be coming through, because they may not come into the bus station and may not even stop unless you are standing outside the bus station to flag them down. I was told there are six daily buses head east from Niya / Minfeng to Cherchen / Qiemo, 314 km, Y36-51, 6 hours, earliest departure 04:00, latest 22:00. I was told that at least one of these continues east to Charklik / Ruoqiang, but I don't know which one.

From Cherchen / Qiemo, one bus goes daily to Charklik / Ruoqiang at 10:00 (Y58, 5 hours, 351km).

Part 2 - Charklik / Ruoqiang to Shimiankuang and Huatugou

From Charklik / Ruoqiang to Shimiankuang, there is a daily public car, leaving at 08:00 or when full. (You may want to arrive early and try for the more comfortable front seat, or at least for a window seat -- and don't let later-arriving folks talk you out of it.) Depending on demand, there is sometimes another car leaving later in the morning. See a picture of one of these public buses at ellyse's virtualtourist page

A public car is an SUV that plies this route, leaving from the bus station which seems to be authorized by the transportation agency and has some official-looking writing on the door. I don't know if you can buy a ticket at the bus station (I went the other direction and paid the driver directly), but let the staff know you want to go to Shimiankuang and they'll point you to the right vehicle. The price is Y100, and it takes 5-6 hours going 251 km over the desert briefly paved but then on a dirt road, through a river canyon on a dirt road and over a pass through the Altyn Mountains which may have a little snow on it at this point.

IIRC, there are no human habitations along this route. Take from your luggage any food, water, and reading/writing materials you may want for the trip, because your luggage will likely be unavailable, probably strapped to the top.

Shimiankuang is a surface asbestos mine just on the Xinjiang side of the provincial border, and isn't shown on most maps. There is a tiny mining hamlet just north of the mine, which is where the public car stops. Nearby Mangnai Zhen, which is on the Qinghai side, perhaps 20 minutes east, shows on some maps.

Here is a satellite view of Shimiankuang. If you pull back and move the map around, you can see where Charklik / Ruoqiang is, to the northwest and where Huatugou and Golmud / Ge'ermu are to the southeast.

Some maps don't show Huatugou either, but Youshashan is usually shown, and it's just 5 km west of Huatugou.

If you get stuck in Shimiankuang, other travelers report primitive accomodation, but you might prefer to take a taxi to Mangnai Zhen. I don't know details about accomodations in Mangnai Zhen either, but there is certain to be someplace to stay and it is a more modern town, small but larger than Shimiankuang, with paved streets and sidewalks. If you do stay in either place please send me photos and details of your lodging and eating places.

There is usually a mini bus that meets the public car. The mini bus goes between Shimiankuang and Huatugou, 65 km, Y15-18, 1 - 1 1/2 hours. It goes each way about three times a day, stopping briefly in Mangnai Zhen on the way.

Part 3 - Huatugou to Golmud / Ge'ermu

From Huatugou, a daily bus goes to Golmud / Ge'ermu at or near 15:00, Y175. I have heard it is 800 km, but counting distances on a map I come up with 600km. It takes 12-15 hours, but it stops at least once for a 45-minute meal break. You will likely arrive quite early in the morning, but there are usually taxis that meet this bus. The bus station is directly across the street from the train station.

If all your stars are in alignment, it is possible to leave Charklik / Ruoqiang at 08:00, for the trip to Shimiankuang to take five hours, for the mini bus to meet you and leave quickly, and for the minibus to reach Huatugou in time to catch the bus the same day to Golmud.

But if I were you, I really wouldn't count on it. Sandstorms are rare but still possible in the fall, and water in the river canyons could slow you down, as could snow on the pass.

You may want to count on having a day to explore Huatugou. If you do, I'd appreciate any photos, sketched maps, locations of useful places and descriptions to add to my write-ups for travelers, since I went the other way and was only in town from 03:00 to 09:00. There is a very basic accomodation almost directly across from the bus station, and a very basic eating place just next store, but the village is large enough to have nicer options as well.

From Huatugou, there is also a daily bus to Dunhuang, and I've read it also leaves at 15:00. Here's info from another traveler about going the other direction: From Dunhuang to Huatugou: 0830 (seater 92.5 RMB) and 2030 (sleeper 110 RMB). So there are likely two the other direction as well. (The frequency may decrease in winter.)

Part 4 - Golmud / Ge'ermu to Lhasa

Every train from anywhere in China going to Lhasa goes through Golmud. But you can't buy a ticket on every train, and from what I've read, you may not even be able to buy a sleeper ticket at all in Golmud on any train. Instead, you'd have to buy a hard seat ticket and hope you can negotiate, once on board, for a hard sleeper berth.

One advantage of entering Tibet from Karghilik / Yecheng through Ali is that you don't have to have a TTB permit in order to buy a bus ticket. Instead, once you reach Ali, you go to the PSB station in the morning, just like hundreds of other fellow travelers have done, and say you are in Tibet without a permit. You will pay Y350 (though I have heard some say Y500) to pay for your permit and for the fine.

In Golmud, I have read here that you need to have a TTB permit in order to be sold a train ticket, which takes not only many hundred yuan but also several days. You can try to get someone one (a Chinese resident) to buy your train ticket for you, because the ticket has no indication of a name or nationality, and no one checks for a permit when you board the train, while you are on the train or when you reach Lhasa.

Do a search here at the ThornTree for golmud lhasa train for related posts.

Altitude

You mention that you are interested in this alternate route because of the altitude issue. You may want to note is that most of Qinghai Province is part of traditional Tibet and is part of the Tibetan Plateau.

Place Feet Meters
Karghilik 4,300 1,310 (aka Yecheng)
Pass 17,200-17,900 5,245 - 5,440 (highest pass between Karghilik / Yecheng and Ali, different reports)
Ali 14,765 4,500
(for more altitudes and distances along this route, see "The Southern Route")
Total kilometers: 1,187 km

Charklik 2,915 888 (aka Ruoqiang)
Pass (Unknown. Estimate perhaps near 13,000 ft / 4,000 meters)
Mangnai Zhen 9,442 2,878 (near Shimiankuang)
Huatugou 9,383 2,860
Golmud 9,216 2,800
Pass
Lhasa 12,000 3,650

Hope this helps. Please report back about what you decide and, especially if you take the Qinghai route, about your travel experiences.

-- Cat www.centralasiatraveler.com

3

This is a great post.

Does anyone know about traveling this route in mid November? In terms of bus schedules, frequency, if they even run etc....

4

The western route, via Ali, is probably not advisable any longer in mid-November. There may still be buses from Karghilik to Ali,, and perhaps still the once-weekly buses from Ali to Darchen, near Kailash. But these would likely be subject to delays or cancellations due to weather the passes. Besides, transport between Darchen and Lhasa pretty much dries up after mid-October, even for SUVs. I've heard the Chinese army keeps the road open, for its military needs but not for your convenience.

OTOH, I went the Qinghai route in mid-November last year, from Lhasa to Golmud by train and the rest of the way by bus and public car, as described. It was fine, with daily transport still running on each leg. There was some snow at the pass on the leg from Shimiankuang to Charklik / Ruoqiang, and the roads were a bit icy at the top, but the public car (an SUV) handled it fine.

If you take either route, please come back and let us know of your experience.

-- Cat www.centralasiatraveler.com

5

Central asian traveller
cheers for such details on the kashgar - golmud buses
just a few questions - ie. how long does it take roughly, knowing that not everything in this part of the world works robotically (or does it:?)
in terms of altitude, do u need to spend time in each town acclimatising?

additionally, i want to trek from lhasa to kathmandu but hoping to avoid horrid tour groups that have spoilt the art of travelling. how easy/difficult is this?

in your post u say u have maps etc - would be very appreciative if you could send these to me, if thats ok.

i am planning my trip for july/august - bit hot at this time?

kind regards
Justin
j_toop@hotmail.com

6

I am pretty sure that this route is no longer open to foreigners unless you are accompanied by a tour guide on a prearranged trip.

Ruth

First check: Everbrite's travel pages, the New RU sticky,and New RU train sticky

Since I have taken the time to answer your question, it would be nice if you took the time to respond as to whether the information was helpful.

7

#6, Ruth: I know that the route through western Tibet is closed unless accompanied by a tour guide. But I hadn't heard that the route from Xinjiang to Tibet through Qinghai to Golmud is unavailable. Perhaps Losang has some idea about the current situation.

#5, Justin: I wouldn't have provided such excruciating detail if everything went robotically. Further, if you just wanted the fastest (more kilometers but still faster) and easiest way from Kashgar to Golmud, you would just go by train Kasghar-Urumqi, Urumqi-Lanzhou, Lanzhou-Golmud. Or, if you were in that much of a hurry, domestic plane fares are low within China and heavy discounts are available.

However, assuming you really want to go this route, the fastest I can see doing it, assuming all goes well and you are really prepared to do what it takes to make it work for you, is four nights and four days, starting with a night bus from Kashgar to Hotan, an all-day bus from Hotan to Cherchen / Qiemo, a day-bus from Cherchen / Qiemo to Charklik / Ruoqiang, a day 'public car' from Charklik-Ruoqiang to Shimiankuang meeting up with a minibus from Shimiankuang to Huatugou, and finally an all-day bus from Huatugou to Golmud. (There was talk of a night bus a few times a week from Cherchen / Qiemo to Charklik / Ruoqiang, which could cut 24 hours out of that total.)

The maps to which I refer are at my Flickr site in the Qinghai collection, which also covers the route from Charklik / Ruoqiang to Golmud: http://www.flickr.com/photos/centralasiatraveler/collections/72157603894764912/.

-- Cat www.centralasiatraveler.com

8

Cheers central
ive not been to this part of the world before so its all new to me. am more than thankful for your help.
ive thought about the plane, but well, it would be just cheating wouldnt it.
the other option would be either private car tour or hiring a car. any idea (or anyone else with any ideas) how much this would cost?
hiring a car generally means you have to return it to origin (not always though), which isnt an option.
Last question - is it possible to get a pass so as to trek from tibet to nepal in any of these places, including Urumqi and Kashgar?
cheers again muchly
Justin

9

Lhasa-Ktm : did that a couple of years ago , and even in the group form it was a great travel experience. I could wander off whenever I wanted , and latch on to the guide tour as I saw fit. Group felt small , divided in to two vehicles that strayed from each other during the day (see the header in my blog) and rejoined in the evening .

Re altitude issues : seems like you have a number of places like Kashgar (1296 meters) that are under the acclimatization threshold . Try to place one night around 2000+ , and the next two around 3000 , after that you can more or less forget about the pass elevations , and just try to get sleeping elevations right : http://korta.nu/5c3a

high road to ..

10

In Xinjiang, you probably don't want to go through the great expense of hiring a private car because the distances in the region are so vast, and you would need to pay for both directions even if you aren't going back with the car. The trains and buses are frequent and of good quality.

When you get to someplace like Kashgar or Hotan, it might be worthwhile to hire a taxi driver for the day in the local area and, depending on your interests, perhaps hire an English-speaking guide for the day.

Finally, travel agents in China, at least outside of the East, are pretty parochial. Perhaps in Kashgar you can find an agent who does trips via western Tibet to Lhasa who can get you the Tibet permit, but he'll likely only do it if you arrange for the tour with his company, and that will be quite pricey.

I highly recommend that you get a copy of the Odyssey Guides "The Silk Road: Xi'an to Kashgar" which covers sightseeing in Xinjiang as well as Gansu and the famed ancient capital at Xi'an.

At the very least, pay a few bucks to download (from the Lonely Planet site) the Silk Road chapter from the Lonely Planet - China book (and the Tibet chapter, while you are at it). This has the main logistical information you'll need -- maps, bus routes, lodging, etc. As I mentioned, folks here know mostly about their own local area. So even a travel agent in Kashgar won't know anything about buses from Charklik / Ruoqiang to Golmud, and certainly won't know anything about travel in Tibet. Similarly, in the U.S., a domestic tour guide in New York probably wouldn't know about buses from Chicago to Atlanta either -- but in Xinjiang, there isn't any place for him to look up such information about bus travel far away. Besides which, it takes time and effort to find a travel agent and work past the language barriers, which you could better spend sightseeing if you just have the guide in your pocket.

-- Cat www.centralasiatraveler.com

11

Hi there,
I think this is a useful infor for the travelers who want to go to Tibet from Gulmud or Xining. As far as I know from my frineds in Dunhuang and lanzhou, it is not difficult to get the permit to Tibet. It takes about 5-7 days for getting permit. The permit is only for 30 days and it starts from the day when you arrive in Tibet. You can extand it only for 2-3 days. But you must travel as a group. I hope more info about this who knows more detail.

www.silkroadinn.com

12

hey vistet
which tour group did u go with, if any?
may i ask the cost and some more details.
i am hoping to go in late august/early september
cheers
jat

13

thanks kuruk
i think ive decided to travel along the tarim hwy back to korla anyway, there by eliminating concerns about reaching golmud from the south if that makes sense
cheers for the info though.

14

Another option, through Qinghai, is to start from Dunhuang. There are daily buses from Dunhuang to Huatugou, and daily buses from Huatugou to Golmud. This route is also described on my page Central Asia Traveler on Charklik / Ruoqiang. You can see in this map of Qinghai how the bus goes from Dunhuang southwest to Huatugou and the other from Huatugou to Golmud. It is probably worth asking (but I have not information on it) whether one can take a bus from Dunhuang to Dachaidam, since that is shorter, and then a bus from Dachaidam to Golmud. There may be a bus, for example, from Dunhuang to Xining that could leave you in Dachaidam, and you could perhaps pick up the Huatugou to Golmud bus there.

However, you will very likely need to get an Alien Travel Permit before you will be allowed to buy any ticket in Dunhuang to go from Dunhuang into Qinghai. You can get this Alien Travel Permit -- hopefully relatively easy, but things have been tense since spring 2008 -- at the main PSB (police station) in Dunhuang. You fill out a simple form, you tell the police officer in the Aliens Entry and Exit Administration office at the PSB where you want to go (Golmud), you pay a small fee (Y50 in 2007) and get the permit. (Note: This permit is distinct from the Tibet Travel Bureau permit required to enter Tibet.)

Although there is a high pass (Dangjin Pass) from Dunhuang (Gansu Province) into Qinghai Province, the road is a good quality highway that can support cargo trucks, in comparison to the rough, narrow road across river beds and across the pass from Charklik / Ruoqiang (Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region) into Qinghai that needs a four-wheel drive.

-- Cat www.centralasiatraveler.com