Thorn Tree travel forum

1

learn the basic greetings etc. its not an easy language to learn and a word can have many meanings depending upon how you say it. a lot more thai in the cities can speak at least a few words of english (if not more) than in the 80s/90s..since you don't mention which parts of thailand you're visiting, it isn't really worthwhile to say if you should spend any effort learning the details of the language. if you're going to stick to the main cities and the beach resorts, then there isn't much point to learning it..

happy travelling

pallav

http://pallavgupta.homeunix.org

"What we get from this adventure is just sheer joy."

2

no matter how well you learn the language, you'll find that when it comes to talking to thais, there are two types of folks: those who are able to tune in to what you're trying to say, and those who will look at you in amazement without the slightest idea what you're on about...no matter how many times you say it, or the clarity of the context in which your words are spoken.

with that said, i've found thais to be the antithesis of the french. by that i mean they are, for the most part, helpful and happy to speak their language with foreigners. the pompous frogs...not so much.

enjoy and have fun.

3

Fair play to you! There are lots of people who have lived her for years who don't bother to learn anything at all...

I've been here a couple of years and the tones are still difficult for me when I'm learning a new word: if my wife tels me a new word, sometimes I still cannot here the tones in it. I found some of the books I used to be misleading, or I interpreted them the wrong way, and for a long time thought that a rising tone rose constantly, whereas it's more like a normal/low tone with an inflections upwards right at the end of the word. And a falling tone doesn't fall evenly either - it's starts as a high tone and has a 'disinterested' falling-off of emphasis at the end. Very difficult to describe accurately, which is why the guides didn't do it for me I guess.

I have found that vowel length is very important too, and this is where many English transliterations fall down for me. A 'sai' is very different from a 'saai' and this contributes a lot to the group of people who just don't understand what I'm saying. It's my fault, not their's. The only way I've got round this is to learn to read Thai and to focus on vowel length when learning and to exaggerate it when speaking.

Context is a lot, though I cannot believe people who say that tones are unimportant and it's all about context. so 'sai' (or 'saai') can mean left, wear/put in. sand and maybe some others. But you don't tell taxis to 'take the next sand left' and you don't ask cooks to 'don't left chilli in my food'. Maybe not great examples but hopefully you get my drift. I've only found this gets easier with building vocab.

When I speak Thai, as well as the responses #2 describes, I also get the 'I didn't expect you to speak Thai so what you've said has gone over my head' look, and the 'Oh! You speak Thai!' followed by a rapid and incomprehensible sentence. My ears are also a lots slower than my mouth or eyes. I can read and speak much better than I can hear, and it's only when I started to read that I found out that there are many words that are basically optional or used to add politeness, ambiguity, or meter to a sentence. So download lots of stuff in Thai and listen to it lots. Even if you don't understand it, you'll start to pick up the shapes of words and tones better. I did get hold of a Pimsleur In-flight Thai course that I found to be poor, which was a shame as the In-flight Mandarin was excellent. But something like that might be good. Speak aloud when practising, don't just do subvocal practise.

So if you're going for 3 weeks, my advice would be to be realistic about what you can learn, what you will use, and what will avoid a response that you will not understand in Thai. Eg: I learned to ask what time buses leave before I learned the Thai time system. Something has to be learned first, but be aware of the consequences.

Greetings, general pleasantries ('bpai nai?', 'bpai tiaow!' - 'go where?' 'go have fun' sort of thing, 'maa jaak bpratet alai? - what country you come from?), dissuaders for touts and suchlike ('mai ao' - don't want, 'mai mee dtaahng ' - don't have money, 'gin laaew' - eaten already), food and drink, numbers prices and bargaining ('paeng' - expensive, 'nit noy' - a little, 'mee alai took gwah mai' - you have anything cheaper?). And as much more or as little as you want.

Avoid the temptation to use any swearing you learn or get taught. Unless you're with a group of Thai who know you well and are relaxed with you, what is said as a joke between themselves might sound very different coming from you. I was once berated by a Thai friend for saying to a Thai tout, after saying two times that I 'mai ao kap', 'look at my clothes, I don't have any money!' as she said it was too harsh and rude.

If you can get any words in local dialect, I always find the reaction to be better still. In the south (from Chumpon) you 'lop baan' instead of 'glap baan' when you're going back to your room, and 'may pleur' instead of 'mai bpen rai' for 'it's not important'. Stuff like that.

But now I'm just rattling on, so I'll stop. If you want to PM me to ask anything more, fel free.

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4

Make a list of phrases you would like to learn and get someone to say them in Thai . Write them down phoneticaly as you hear them .
You can also ignore the tones if necessary and just pronounce evrythng in the same tone , you will often find they can guess what you are trying to say even though its not in right tone.

5

Yes, Thai is damn difficult for me as well. I am trying to do as #3 did and learn to read and write. The characters are throwing me for a loop at the moment. People laugh at me when they hear me practice, as I am learning in much the same fashion as a young child would. You can find me with my elementary level book saying "gao ... gai"!!! I can appreciate the fact that you want to learn, but I would keep it simple if you are only coming for 3 weeks. I would have to agree with #4. The tones are difficult, and people can usually string together what you are saying if you screw them up (like I always do!). As #4 mentions, the language changes depending on where you are, but central Thai is pretty much widely understood throughout Thailand. So, I wouldn't worry too much about regional variation. That being said, you might have trouble understanding what people are saying in some places (ie: Issan). Good luck!

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6

A good way into the tones is by learning the numbers 1 to 100 first - also obviously useful in their own right! Throw your voice around over your own personal vocal range and don't worry about sounding a prat. If it's 'rising', make it rise; if it's 'high', go for it! Speaking Thai in timid monotone will not help either party.

The Lonely Planet Phrasebook is useful (but pricey) and follows the same tone marking system as in the Guidebook.

7

Quote

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no matter how well you learn the language, you'll find that when it comes to talking to thais, there are two types of folks: those who are able to tune in to what you're trying to say, and those who will look at you in amazement without the slightest idea what you're on about...no matter how many times you say it, or the clarity of the context in which your words are spoken.

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Yup. Some people are just not good at communicating in general, or they freeze up, whatever. A big part of communication is not just learning the language, but learning to pick the people who are more likely to understand you. Typically younger is better, better educated is better, etc. Old drunk uncles are the worst; don't bother with those.

Check out pics and reviews of all kinds of food at chanchao.fotopages.com. Get the Thai Travel Menu, a printable bilingual menu to help you order great food off the beaten path.

8

That's good advice AlanJ, but for someone visiting for such a short time, it's not worth the effort IMHO. It's hard enough to learn enough phrases and folks who've been learning Thai for quite some time sill can't get the tones down. Plus, Thais can sort out the mistakes in tones.

Just don't ever ask for a popular sweet/spicy, dipping sauce for chicken called, naam gym gai waan.
naam= water (sauce)
gym= to dip
gai= chicken
waan= sweet

Problem is, a very similar word to "gym", but spoken in a different tone, is a slang word for vagina. If you screw it up, you'll be asking for a chicken's vagina juice. I've done it many times and I know exactly when I do it: each time the gal just smirks in laughter and embarrassment, walks away, and brings back the sauce with a smirk still on her face.

gai tord sai naam gym gai waan arroi dedt. wayne16 raak phrathet thai maak maak leoi! sanook tii-suut.

9

Asking questions is easy. Understanding the answers given is usually impossible, for a person just learning the language. If you say, 'where's the train station', which is very easy, and you get the answer in Thai, will you understand what was said? No you won't. I wouldn't waste my time trying to learn the language if you plan on only being there for a few weeks. Now if you plan on coming back many times or moving there in the future then I wish you very good luck learning the language.

pull my finger

10

Thanks everybody, your input has been really helpful! I don't think I'll be fluent by the time November rolls around, but I'm definitely going to try some phrases. I just think it's rude to travel to a country & expect everybody to speak your language, so as long as I don't ask for a chicken's vajina juice (which made me chuckle - wayne16!!) then I think I'll be ok!

Kelly :-)

11

If it's anything to do with you owing them money or them wanting something out of you,they understand 100%!

You could pop over to....link and do a search for the rosetta stone Thai language course.
This is interactive language learning software. The courses are total language immersion. No English translations, just learning through the use of sounds/pictures/speaking. The courses usually start off by using single words eg rose, then you'll see four pictures. All you do is click the picture you think is correct.The courses gradually continue and build up to more complex words/expressions.

I'm doing the German course and I like the total immersion method. However I've previously studied German so things weren't completely new to me.

Give it a try see how you get on!

12

Checkout www.learningthai.com excellent language site. Free
Also obviously get a good dictionary/phrase book that has the words and phrases in English/Phonetic pronunciation/and Thai
I don't know how many times when my attempts to talk or ask questions didn't get it across I would show them the word or phrase that is written in Thai and resolved the issue.
I have been studying Thai in Chiang Mai for about 8 months now and while I can usually talk to a Thai I rarely understand two Thais talking together with the slang and everything. So don't get down if it doesn't come to you easily its a difficult language.
Good luck and have fun The Thais are great and helpful you won't have a problem.

wherenxt.

13

People seem to think that the phonetic alphabet is easy to learn (IPA). I don't understand how this could be. From an English speaking perspective, Thai has sounds that do not exist. Even a graduate level course (introductory) in linguistics does not go into enough detail to learn this much of the phonetic alphabet. Strange symbols like the "schwa" are used instead of the normal vowel. So, why do so many people advocate spelling things phonetically? Surely, not everyone is up to par with this alphabet.

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14

Forget english phonetic alphabets, they are misleading and inconsistent, you need hear the Thai spoken with a audio language course or the web sites that have audio clips, listen carefully to the tones and vowel length, this is far more important than constantant sounds when speaking Thai. I struggled with tones for ages until I found this really useful advice for westerners learning Thai

there are 5 basic tones, low, medium, high, risong and falling

a low tone starts medium and drops quickly to low and stays low
a medium tone stays medium throughout
a high tone starts medium, rises to quickly to high and stays high
a falling tone starts medium, rises to quickly to high and then falls to low
a raising tone starts medium, drops quickly to low and then rises to high

This is how the Thai's use tones and means that even though each person speaks with a different natural pitch, the contrast in the tones is what people say and hear, it also explains how the Thai's can sing while keeping in tune with music, the tones themselves are not fixed, but relative throughout each vowel sound

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