Thorn Tree travel forum

1

I think that what a lot of travellers fail to remember (or certainly the more idealistic ones) is that we can only travel because of the world capitalist system. For example us Brits find virtually everywhere in the world cheap thanks to the strong pound and the amount of money we can earn in a short time. If I was to work on close to the minimum wage for 3 months and scrimp and save I'd have enough to budget travel for at least another 3 months almost anywhere in the world.

I know people in poorer countries who would love to travel but simply can't because of visa restrictions and a lack of money. There is a tendency (and I was certainly guilty of this particularly in my early travel Gap Year days) to look at local people like a tourist attraction. It is fantastic that people want to ingratiate themselves into a local culture rather than just sunbathe in Benidorm reading the Daily Mirror yet there is always an element of a superiority complex, even if it is unintentional, because "we" have chosen to go there "they" are grateful and appreciative - obviously a generalisation but certaily true in the majority of cases when I went to Africa.

Personally I want to live abroad, this is because I want to live a life I'm not expected to do, I don't want a life of grinding routine. Nonetheless most jos are capitalist and as I really want to work for myself I'm looking into running a business abroad, possibly a hostel. I don't see myself as a Hippie, renegade or anything of the like I'm fully aware that I am taking advantage of a deeply unfair world system that affords me opportunities that others can only dream of. But anyone who travels and enjoys travelling is doing the same thing.

2

You've put your finger on a problem that has been troubling my mind for some time.

I am 20 years old and Norwegian. Everyone knows that Norway is stone rich. Everyone knows that no country in the world, although they might have a larger BNP per person than us, can equal Norway when it comes to the average living standards. And it is true - this world has never seen a wealthier generation than my generation of Norwegians. We have, on average, all we can ask for, and a lot that we didn't ask for too. And this is reflected on our travelling habits - a lot of my friends from school took a gap year after highschool and went travelling round the world. When I talk to them afterwards, they say it was fun, but Oh God, how dirty the toilets were over there in India, and the African food tasted like old shoes, they simply HAD to eat the McDonalds, and after all, they're glad to be home again. And I realise they just didn't get it. When my friends go travelling, they see it as a small break, as something that will buy them a good conscience (after two weeks of volunteering, they've done their bit), give them a nice photos and make them seem more mature, reflected and experienced to future employers. They said they were going to see the world for themselves, what it really was like, theyn said they were going to make a difference and come back wiser, but all they got was a tan and a nice photoalbum, and I think that that was all they wanted, after all. They have not seen beneath the surface of anything - they just "skimmed the milk" of the world and went back home again. And that's what travelling is about, to them.

Travelling is "in". It's hip and cool, and everybody who "is" something has been in Goa smoking weed with American backpackers. That is why my friends go travelling - because it's fashion. Otherwise, they'd never go, they never saw themselves as drop-outs of the Western society, they don't hate the system, because by chance, the system placed us on top of the pyramide, and how could you hate it then?

Our parents say my generation are spoiled, lazy, and luke warm - they say we're not passionate about anything, the way they used to be when they were hippies. We don't care like they used to do. And yes, they (the hippies) used to care. But where are they now? Truth is, most of this starry-eyed, long-haired group of people are "respectable grownups" today, working within the very same system they cursed back then. What happened along the way? They dropped out of school for a couple of years, they smoked marijuana and talked of peace and love, and then things cooled off a bit, and they went back to school, they got a good education and now they are divorced, get to see their kids every other weekend, they've got a grand house and a car out in the suburbs and they go golfing on saturdays, like all the others, whom they cursed back in the good ol' days when they still hoped to change their world.

Not all of them though. Some never gave up hope, some still establish eco-villages in orkney and the west-indies, some still grow their own organic vegetables and have a compost heap and work with collecting money for orphanages in Africa. Some really dropped out of society, some went travelling and let what they saw change them. Some scratched beneath the surface of the world and came back wiser.

So, after giving this matter some serious thought, my conclusion is as follows;
Maybe the history is repeating itself. I think the hippie-wave was mostly another turn of "fashion" - and most "hippies" were so because their mates were, because that was "in" those days. And today, as travelling's "in" (again) most young travellers are gap-yearer's who go on a whooping, partying, life-celebrating raid of the world for a couple of months because their friends do, and then go back home as if nothing ever happened.

But some back in the hippie-day saw, and let what they saw change them, and these are still true to the "ideal" cause of alternative travelling. And like some saw then, some do now - some of us in the wealthiest gang of youngster Mother Earth have ever seen, really go out there to see and to get wiser.

I just have to make sure I'm one of them.

And just to make it clear - these are nothing but my personal thoughts. This is how I personally see the situation and my generation of travellers. I do not mean to offend anyone, and I do not mean to generalise - if someone don't agree with me, speak up. I love to hear other people's view and thoughts on matters that engage me.

..Longing for horizons..

3

A big difference is that the original hippe culture of the 60s and 70s was really the crest of the wave of baby boomers reaching their late teens and early twenties.

The sheer number of young people going through the transition to independence by rejecting the values of their parents led people to believe it was something other than just normal youthful rebellion.

There will always be some people who drop out of their society in various ways but the majority of people will stay a part of the society they were raised in, it is just human nature.

4

Elenwen, I think your generalizations, while having a certain ring of truth, say a lot more about how different generations perceive each other than how they differ from each other. We have a funny tendency to look at the "hippies" as a much larger part of the 1960s/70s than they really were, and in the process see them as a cohesive and detached social group rather than an eclectic and random, small quantity of people drifting in and out of a certain aesthetic. I guess it's just because the drop-out counterculture captured the imagination of mainstream pop culture during that era more than any other. I'd surmise that there are far more Westerners living alternative lifestyles now, but without a juggernaut of fashions, films, and song lyrics immortalizing their supposed values. Since most of them don't grow their hair long, wear lots of beads, and float around on a cloud of incense, perhaps you'd never guess by looking at them.

Personally, I'm not a hippie, and could never pass for one on the street. That said, I did give up my proletarian job and my shakyy anchorage in a big wealthy city to live with only what I can carry on my back and keep no permanent base indefinitely. It looks rather bad on my CV, as I appear to be downwardly mobile, lacking direction, and at 25 far too old for a "Gap Year." But still, I don't see my current lifestyle as particularly rebellious or countercultural, nor do most people I encounter - perhaps one key generational difference. As for the possibility of having a "capitalist job" in the future - well, if travel is your passion, you need money, and there aren't a hell of a lot of cash-paying jobs out there that aren't in some way capitalist.

To address the OP, I don't think I see "alternative travel" as the same thing as "dropping out of western society." Travel is not in and of itself a self-sustaining lifestyle, nor is it a luxury available to most people who have genuinely cut the umbilical cord to western money. And since there is a rather well-defined network of hippie enclaves entrenched in several places around the world, I'm not sure if putting on the costume and travelling between them really qualifies as any more alternative than donning a polo shirt and slacks and hitting all the golf courses. Once you decide to set yourself apart as an individual and create a path that suits you, all subcultures look like packs of zombies.

What have I become,
my Swedish friend?
Ev'ryone I know
Goes away Indian

5

SockMonster (nice nickname!!) - I agree with you. As for how big the hippie-movement really was, I actually have no idea. I'm twenty years old, and have no way of knowing what it was like in '68, only what people say and what is "commonly known" - and that is the "legend", the media picture - that's where I got the impression that the hippiewave was a huge thing. But what you say about the hippiegeneration's impact on society makes sense to me. And what you say about there being more people living "alternatively" now that earlier, I should think it's true as well. The fact that these are not prominent in the travelling masses might be because travelling (as I already mentioned) is "in", and western economics have done nothing but grown generally since the last WW, so more and more people have the money to go travelling. The portion of people being leading an alternative lifestyle has grown, but the portion of people travelling has grown even more, so that this doesn' reflect upon travelling habits the way it used to, maybe? I dunno.

As for what alternative travel really is, whether it's just an other way of organizing your holidays or it really is, in a way, dropping out of western society, I think that really depends on the eye of the beholder. For some, alternative travel is making sure that you choose the least polluting kind of transport avaliable, eat locally produced, organice food and making sure that you only support activities that doesn't harm local culture or locals in any ways. For others, alternative travel is really saying goodbye to the old way of thinking. This is what alternative travel is to me, at least. I have done a bit of travelling, taking part in various volunteering programs etc. and I feel that each of them has changed me, and I feel the urge to do something like that growing each time.

That said, there are a lot of people (grownups) telling me I'll become more "mature" - I'll grow up, and I'll soon be satisfied with living in a suburb doing an 8 am- 4pm job, going on the occasional "jump-on" trip to a tourist hotel in Cyprus. I hope they' won't be proven right.

..Longing for horizons..

6

Elenwen #2 was a great post, I hope you stay forever young.

Lao Bumpkin a blog about Laos

7

You sound like a very, very mature 20-year old, Elenwen.

I hope to meet more young people like you on the road :)

Photos of everyday life by various TTers.

8

#4 lets all raise a glass to being 'downwardly mobile' ;-)

I've been thinking about this a lot recently as my husband and I (34 and 35) have decided to jack in perfectly good upwardly mobile jobs and take our kids off travelling for a year. Why do I want to do it? is it cos it's trendy? Is it cos I feel I need to prove something (to myself) about travel and kids going together fine? Cos I've won the lottery?

No. The bottom line is I really really want to. The thought of doing the 9-5 in suburbia like Elenwen says til the end of time brings me out in hives, and if I hear another conversation about where you have to live to get into the right school etc I'll scream!

So maybe I am a hippy, but I think maybe the definition of hippy has changed a bit or perhaps I have more Buddist tendancies, and every 7 years need to make a change!

We will also be coming back in a year's time to no jobs, and arevlooking to live overseas maybe with our own business, so maybe it IS trendy!

www.fourgortw.co.uk

9

Elenwen, I must say, I do know a handful of fully domesticated suburbanites who are quite content with the Ikea lifestyle, though conscientious and free-thinking in plenty of other ways. None of them have ever found the idea of travel (or anything outside of the comfortable and familiar) very appealing, though they often express admiration and envy for people they consider 'free spirits'. For the most part, the values and goals they had at the age of 20 set the course for the individuals they would grow into in their thirties, forties, etc. At 20 they studied diligently in fields that they chose more for business prospects than passions, they took genuine pride in the gains they made in their employment hierarchies, they dreamed more of having nicer things (clothes, cars, apartments, electronics) than adventurous experiences, they projected their sexual relationships into an imagined future, and even when their plans were derailed by addiction, prison time, or terminal illness, they still took comfort in the hope of eventually owning a home, raising a family, and being, in a word, grounded. If that doesn't describe you now, maybe it never will. If it does - well, maybe you will eventually be happy with keeping alternative travel as a side dish. After all, it wouldn't be alternative if everybody did it.

Travellingmum, hats off to you and your website for demonstrating that the adventure isn't over when you start spawning.

What have I become,
my Swedish friend?
Ev'ryone I know
Goes away Indian

10

Oi you lot
of course it aint wot it woz, 68 8munfs Katmandu few joints, rollin stones were there beatles wiv alf a dozen crazy pseudo beliefs from dao to Hari Krishna and jet singhs woz the Norwegian uni bloke who ad a cult following, they were all suicidal when he went back ome to is Uni not your Dad is e elenwen? we woz revoltin! all over the place, we thought we were gonna change the world an we ad real feelins Vietnam was ablaze we protested ban the bomb etc . moody blues an doors were our Heros.
Then we went ome and ad you lot of wasters, cept for those like elinwen wot now all yer wants is sex sand and sangrita, now fed up wiv Ibifa on to Aiya napia and Koh Pnang, now its gotta be cultural. Oh yeah see Angkor then on to Vang Vianne more sex and party. ome to wherever pregnant and on social.
didn't learn much through our mistakes did yer. at least we went ome got jobs and ad the memories
eres a few of em now sees if you can do better maybe throw the Oly bible away lonely plonkers travel guides then hed off.
get out there girl an show em yor different, must go nursies comin an im not allowed on the nursin ome computer. as they ssez if yer remember the 60's yer woznt there.
love to yers all an I wosnt even an Ippy
Arry
az it woz in the 60's

did it dun it got the T shirt

11

#10 Was that in English?

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That said, there are a lot of people (grownups) telling me I'll become more "mature" - I'll grow up, and I'll soon be satisfied with living in a suburb doing an 8 am- 4pm job, going on the occasional "jump-on" trip to a tourist hotel in Cyprus. I hope they' won't be proven right.

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Elenwen - They said that to me too. And I'm now living abroad (again). Nothing wrong with being happy with being home though. Sometimes I wish I were more like my friends who are perfectly happy breeding and talking about housing renovations and interest rates. But then again, I have days like yesterday where the sun is shining and I walked past sparking blue waters and snow-capped mountains on the way to work feeling oh-so-lucky (if you're from Australia that's kinda cool).

Photos of everyday life by various TTers.

12

I'm a boomer and I'm sorry to tell you but a lot (most) of that hippie travel was a search for cheap drugs/highs.

Tahiti On A Budget --- Kayaking and Camping Palau

13

trying not to mess up the spirit of this thread because i like it, just wanted to add that there is something really basic that is perhaps the greatest influence on change with cultural and travel issues discussed here, and it's something i often forget but am reminded of more and more every day: population. world population. think the word 'world' can be used more fittingly next to population these days. the world is becoming smaller. some of the increase in numbers of travelers is simply that there ARE more of them. and easier to travel w the world smaller, so to speak. population does so much to change so many things about who we are and what we do and our relationships to each other. i like the growing connections between us all (simple example, Thorn Tree), however, there are the negatives too. over time, the more population and travel increases the less adventurous and exciting traveling seems to me (just my opinion), especially when it comes to the alluring and mysterious out-of-the way places. then again, it can make the larger cities more adventurous in their own way, ha.

sometimes people travel, long term or short term to just get a break from the masses. i have noticed there are today more people or populations who are setting up there own communities within other countries that resemble somewhat their country of origin. like an enclave. and this seems to be a trend. people are talking about retirement in this way.

sometimes i wonder: how much is increased population, globalization and increased travel etc changing culture in the world and making it less unique? part of the attraction or impulse to travel for me is to do something free, independent, unique, and foreign and to learn from it or make unforgettable memories.

slsutton

14

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have noticed there are today more people or populations who are setting up there own communities within other countries that resemble somewhat their country of origin. like an enclave.

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Actually this has been the norm throughout history. Migrant communities have, whenever possible, created somewhat insular communities and imparted some of their culture's aesthetics to their new homes. And of course, so have colonists - hence all the places around the world that look like Europe. One interesting trend, though, is the recreation of the outside world without the presence of a migrant community. Anyone here been to the "Dutch village" of Huis Ten Bosch in Japan? Or "travelled" in a virtual world online? As places in the world look more and more similar, there will be a higher premium on the notion of authenticity, and perhaps even more inorganic re-imaginings of it.

What have I become,
my Swedish friend?
Ev'ryone I know
Goes away Indian