Thorn Tree travel forum

1

How to pick the right Ha Long Bay tour

The first thing you need to know about Ha Long Bay is that it's beautiful and well-worth seeing.

The only real question for the traveller in Vietnam is how best to see it and, like many things in Vietnam, things are never as clear a they could be.

Travel agents who promise the earth, but fail to deliver combined with travellers whose expectations are totally unrealistic makes for a volatile Ha Long Bay cocktail.

The overwhelming majority of travellers experience Ha Long Bay via a group tour that begins and ends in Hanoi, where there's a dizzying variety of tours, with prices ranging from about US$12 a day to $70 and up per person.

Ha Long Bay is cluttered with some 500 licensed junks, and on any given day, up to 300 of them may be plying the waters -- that's basically one boat for every ten ticket offices in Hanoi!

Competition has driven prices down to absurdly low levels and as corner cutting, cheating and bare-faced lies become par for the course so do travellers leaving with a bad taste in their mouth... but it needn't be that way.

Doing your research and asking the right questions -- not just of the travel agent you're dealing with, but also other travellers you meet along the way -- can go a long way to making sure your junk ain't sunk.

So, how do you know which Ha Long Bay tour is the one for you? We'll get to that, but first, here's some background on the site.

Ha Long Bay
Ha Long Bay is a UNESCO World Heritage site -- and you'll be reminded of this several times throughout your tour. UNESCO has picked out 830 World Heritage sites around the world, chosen for their cultural and historical importance, and also for their geological uniqueness. Ha Long Bay offers a little of all three.

It's not the cliffs themselves that make Ha Long Bay unique, but rather their sheer number. A huge bay, dotted with nearly 2,000 mostly uninhabited limestone cliffs, the breathtaking scenery is very similar to that of the Andaman coast of Thailand, Vang Vieng in Laos and Guilin in China.

Created over millions of years, tectonic forces slowly thrust the limestone above the water-line. During this process waves lapping against the stone carved out a number of vast, striking caverns, as well as other geologically interesting formations, such as tunnel caves and uniquely shaped massifs. Unfortunately the geological forces at work were not too flash in the beach-making department, so most of the beaches tourists are taken to in the bay are man-made with the umbrellas and the sand in which they stand are all shipped in.

Over the ages, Vietnamese fishermen with too much time on their hands began to see shapes in the stone massifs atop many of the islands, and named the islands accordingly -- Turtle Island, Human Head Island, Chicken Island and so on. In what constitutes one of the most fascinating cultural features of the area, some of these fisherman still live on the bay today -- on floating fishing villages, where houses are set atop barges year round, the inhabitants catching and cultivating fish throughout.
So what is a Ha Long bay tour like?

The primary purpose of a Ha Long Bay tour is to savour the tranquillity and beauty of the water. But two or three days of utter tranquillity can get a little too tranquil -- luckily the natural and cultural endowments of the bay provide activities -- in some cases with a heavy helping hand from the Vietnamese government.

They're slow
Boats ply the waters slowly and take scenic, circuitous routes. They often stop and put down their anchors while the passengers are eating lunch.

You may visit a floating village
Not all tours make a stop at a fishing village -- some just cruise by. If you do stop, you'll be able to view the seafood being farmed, have the opportunity to buy some, and have it prepared for you free-of-charge on the boat.

You'll get to swim
Every tour stops for a swim at least once a day. Sometimes these swims take place near local fishing villages, leading to jokes and apprehensions about the toilet situation on fishing villages. All tours also include a stop at one of the beaches.

You may get to kayak
All the boats bring kayaks and, weather and tides permitting, stop to let passengers paddle around. Sometimes the opportunity to kayak through one of the tunnel cave systems will present itself. Other times passengers are simply expected to paddle in circles around the boat -- not surprisingly the caves and tunnels are far more interesting.

You'll get to go caving
All tours include at least one cave visit in the price of the tour (admission on your own is 20,000 dong). The two most popular caves are the Dragon Cave and the Surprising Cave. You won't know beforehand which cave you will see -- that decision is made on the boat.

You may sleep over on the bay
Two and three-day tours always offer a night in a cabin. On any given night, about 80 boats are allowed to drop anchor in one of three designated areas -- that means each area is filled with 20 to 30 boats. Sometimes they anchor very close to one another, other times they'll find a more private spot away from other boats.

You may overnight on Cat Ba Island
Most two-day tours offer one night in a two-star hotel on Cat Ba Island. Activities including a hike in Cat Ba National Park, a kayaking trip through some offshore tunnel caves, and/or a lunchtime-visit to a local fish farm, where you catch your own fish before it is prepared for you, are usually offered as a part of the tour.

You'll be fed and transported
All tours offer three meals a day, starting with lunch on the first day and ending with lunch on the last day. The quality of the meals varies tremendously depending on the price of the tour as does the transport to and from Hanoi.

So, no matter how much or how little you pay, all of the above, at least in theory, will be included in the tour. Judging the differences between tours, then, is not so much a matter of what they do, but how well they do it -- and if they actually deliver on what they promise.

To get the skinny on the inner workings of the Ha Long Bay cocktail, we tested out three tours of Ha Long Bay -- one budget, one midrange, and a more luxurious option -- and had three very different experiences of the same bay -- read on to learn how we fared.

Travelfish -- your online guide to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam.

2

Ha Long Bay for backpackers -- you get what you pay for

Two night/three day budget tour
Total cost: US$40
Operator: Open Tour and Travel

Crammed into a jam-packed minivan, our tour commenced with us circling the block a few times to avoid getting ticked by the cops for illegally stopping to pick up some of our passengers, but then we were away and our guide introduced himself. In his quite decent English, he explained that the 160km journey to Ha Long City would take three hours -- apparently the slow going was due to the police -- not to worry, if there were no cops around, we were assured, our driver would attempt to speed whenever possible.

The trip included a 15-minute stop at a crafts centre set up for victims of Agent Orange and at 11:00 we reached Ha Long City. Once there our guide promptly got into a 15-minute argument with another guide, and we were eventually put into another minivan and driven to the pier at Bai Chay.

The pier was crammed with boats and after standing around for 30 minutes, our guide returned with tickets and we clamoured over three other boats to reach our (obviously badly parked) boat. As our group was generally agile the cross-boat-obstacle-course was no trouble, though there was trouble to come.

Upon booking we were promised a tour of no more than sixteen passengers, and were surprised to find 11 more people piling on to the boat with us -- making for a total of 27 people. They were day-trippers, and those travelling to Cat Ba Island. When asked, we were advised that "they don't count" as a part of our group because they aren't on our three-day tour. Twenty-seven people on a small boat made for a tight fit.

Our boat, like many of the budget junks, had a large top-deck which featured hard, wooden sun-loungers that should have had cushions but didn't. An epidemic problem on budget tours, we later learned. For an hour, we sat and waited to depart, and once underway, lunch appeared. A decidedly mediocre but edible meal.

We visited one of the floating fishing villages, which was definitely a sight to see and some passengers bought seafood from the villagers -- the staff on the boat cooked it up for them at no extra cost.

We stopped off at the Dragon Cave where we walked in file with one hundred other tourists, viewing the stalagmites, the stalactites, and paused to contemplate which was which. The cave was artificially decorated with coloured lights, man-made pools and fountains, and two red lights were fixed to where the 'eyes' should be in the rock formation that is said to look like a Dragon. Lovely.

Next was an unappealing beach for swimming and kayaking -- there was only one kayak and it was never put in the water. Later we found out it had a leak. No worries -- the weather was lousy, and no one wanted to kayak anyway.

Our first night was meant to be onboard, but the boat had somehow become "overbooked" and so we were shuffled into a hotel on Cat Ba Island. The two-star hotel was anything but remarkable and we got an equally mediocre dinner and breakfast. In the morning, we trekked through Cat Ba National Park -- a challenging climb through beautiful mangrove forests, though lacking in any exceptional wildlife -- we did spot goats though.

Thrown off schedule by being re-routed to the island, it wasn't until late afternoon that we reboarded for our night at sea, and while we were supposed to stop off to swim, that somehow got lost in the shuffle. Dinner was much the same as the night before.

We cruised around for a while before eventually stopping at one of the three designated spots where tour boats are permitted to anchor. The night on the boat was memorable mostly for sitting on the top deck engaging in long, ranging conversations with other passengers over beers. It was a wonderfully relaxing evening, and the bay is a mysteriously beautiful place to be as the sun sets -- despite the sound of karaoke drifting across the bay from some of the other boats.

When we retired, the cabins were clean, if somewhat dilapidated. While one passenger found himself chocking on exhaust fumes in his cabin and had to spend the night on the top deck, we were all kept up by the deafening noise from the cheap Chinese generator.

In the morning, four-pieces of bread and a greasy omelette sustained us through the slow tour back to Ha Long City for the packed minivan back to Hanoi.

Travelfish -- your online guide to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam.

3

Ha Long Bay for flashpackers -- the best of both worlds

Two night/three day mid-range tour
Total cost: US$74
Operator: Saigon Cafe Tours

As with the budget tour, we kicked off with a packed minivan, but unlike the previous tour the staff were better trained, spoke better English, and were more informative. Again we stopped off at the crafts centre for the victims of Agent Orange, but were spared the confusion of any more stops and delivered straight to the pier.

Once there we still had to climb over several boats to get to ours, but when we did, we found a beautiful, new wooden junk. There was no top deck, but there were decks fore and aft with sun-loungers that actually had cushions! And tables to sit around, and a big pagoda thingy on the bow to shield us from the sun. More importantly, the boat set sail with a compliment of eight passengers, without packing it full of day-trippers.

The cabins were a vast improvement on the previous tour -- cozy, well-decorated, with tile bathrooms -- a pint-sized version of a midrange hotel room. And the food was a definite notch up as well -- more fresh seafood, better presentation, and the staff were eagre to please.

We saw the Surprising Cave this time, which was a bit more interesting than it's cousin, the Dragon. We won't give away the surprise. The beach we visited was a bit better than on the budget tour and there were no last-minute changes -- we spent the first night on the boat. The small compliment of passengers we wound up with weren't nearly as social as the budget group, and there was no top-deck on the boat to lounge on, so we hit the sack early.

We arrived in Cat Ba early in the morning, checked into our hotel -- a two-star place, no better or worse than the budget tour, then piled into a mini bus and ventured out to explore cave arches in the bay by kayak, and a cavern that had only been discovered five years ago -- the best cave yet. Afterwards we fished for our lunch at a local fish farm and ate what we caught. Following lunch we were given 'free time' to stroll on Cat Ba's seafront promenade or visit one of the beaches. Not a bad day, all told.

When we boarded the boat again in the morning, we found some extra passengers there that had just spent the night on it, for a one-night, two day cruise -- but just a handful. Cruising back to Ha Long Bay in the morning, we would have stopped for a swim, but the weather was against us, so we continued to the pier. Again we had to crawl across four boats to get from ours to the pier and some of the older passengers had a pretty rough time of it. Then there was lunch at Ha Long City, and the van back to Hanoi.

Travelfish -- your online guide to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam.

4

Ha Long Bay for budget-busters -- with a touch of class

One night/two day upper-range tour
Total cost: US$130
Operator: Buffalo Tours

Many of the luxury tours offer two nights on the boat, and skip the whole Cat Ba Island experience, so we booked a two-day, one-night tour just to give us a taste of luxury.

The difference was apparent from the outset. Passengers were driven from Hanoi to Ha Long City in a large, comfortable tour bus, even though there was only a compliment of eight. As with all other tours we again swung through the crafts centre for the victims of Agent Orange.

Once at the pier, instead of hopping from junk to junk to get to our boat, we were picked up at the dock by a small ferry, and taken to where our boat was moored in the bay. It was larger, if not quite as new as the mid-range boat.

The key difference was the service and the food. The staff on the mid-range tour were good, but seemed like novices compared to the staff on the luxury cruise. And the food was five-star all the way -- some of the best food we've tasted in Vietnam, with a good selection of wines to go with it (at luxury prices, of course).

Oddly, the cabins weren't quite as good as the mid-range tour, but they made the best with what they had. There was no aft deck, and only the fore-deck was available for lounging, but with a small compliment of passengers, comfy sun-loungers and bean bag chairs, there was plenty of room. The air-con cabins were free of any generator noise, and we slept soundly.

We saw Surprising Cave again (and were not surprised) but the kayaking component was quite fun -- coursing through more tunnel arches into a secluded lagoon, to be followed by swimming and plunging off the fore-deck into the water, which is always a crowd-pleaser.

The tour ended with another visit to a crappy beach (one passenger found a hypodermic needle floating in the water) and a slow cruise back to Ha Long City, where we were once again whisked comfortably ashore by ferry, for a return back to Hanoi on the big, roomy tour bus.

Travelfish -- your online guide to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam.

5

Ha Long Bay conclusions and a confession

And now, our adventures at sea have drawn to close. We've sampled the budget, mid-range, and luxury tour options. And as we reflect on the experience, what conclusions can be drawn?

The budget tour is a crap shoot. We'd be hard-pressed to say which of the myriad agencies offering discount tours is most likely to offer the best experience. The problem is, in order to fill all the boats, agencies shift passengers around from operator to operator, so there's no telling in advance what which boat you'll be on or how good the crew will be. For every report we get of having a wonderful time going through a specific tour company, we hear from elsewhere that travellers had a trip from hell.

You can't stop the budget tour agencies from loading the boat full of day trippers, and you can't do much about the quality of the food. When you get to Cat Ba, however, you can skip out on the meal you've paid for (after all, you didn't pay that much) and dine at one of the seafood restaurants instead. Once you are on the boat, you can try to persuade the crew to take you to Surprising Cave, rather than Dragon Cave, to take you kayaking through tunnel arches rather than in circles around the boat, and take you to the best beach, which is Ba Traidao (Three Peaches Beach).

Much of your enjoyment however depends on the group of people you wind up with on the boat. If you're in your own small group, you could have a really good time no matter how hellish the service and accommodation are. We were lucky and were in a great group of people and, truth be told, had a lot more fun on the budget tour than on the other tours -- probably because the lousy conditions created a sense of comradery that was absent on the other tours.

At the end of the day, it can't be denied: it's a great deal for the price -- a night in a hotel, a night on the boat, and, (weather permitting) swimming, kayaking, trekking, caves -- doing it on your own would be much more expensive.

A midrange tour is definitely worth the money in terms of the increased quality of the food and the service. There's less chance of missing out on things because of schedule changes, there are fewer passengers aboard the boat, the cabins are better, and activities are much more well-planned and well-coordinated.

Families travelling with children are strongly advised to steer clear of the budget tours, where every hiccup and set back will be multiplied by the number of kids in your brood. But you'll still get a two-star hotel on Cat Ba, which is no better than you'd get on the budget cruise. There are two three-star hotels on Cat Ba you can request to book into, for an extra charge -- The Princes and Holiday View, but of the two, we can only recommend The Princes. And there's one four-star option, the Sunrise Resort, but if you're only spending one night, it hardly seems worth it.

Also, midrange cruises can adapt more easily to special requests -- if you want to go mountain-biking or take an independent motorcycle tour while on Cat Ba, instead of the scheduled group activity, they can probably arrange it for you -- just make your needs known in advance.

But a real concern on the higher-priced tours is that solo travellers might find themselves on a boat full of families and couples and feel a bit left out. Independent travellers tend to travel cheap, and you're likely to find more of your own kind on the budget trip. Still, if you're a stickler on the finer points of service and accommodation (you know who you are) you'd probably be happier paying a bit more.

For most travellers, the luxury trips don't offer a significant benefit except in terms of the food and service. Gourmands will be well-satisfied by the delicious, well-presented cuisine. Otherwise, there isn't much your extra dollars will buy that can improve on the basic Ha Long Bay experience, over and above what you get on a midrange cruise. With one important exception: for travellers with mobility issues, a luxury tour is a necessary expense -- it's the only way to guarantee you'll be able to get easily on and off your boat, and receive the necessary assistance to do so.

When it comes to recommending particular operators, we're left in a quandry of sorts as very few operators actually own their own boat. While passengers with XYZ tours today may have the boat of the day, the next group may score a rust-bucket, and while the more you pay reduces the chances of you travelling on a Vietnamese Titanic it doesn't remove the possibility totally.

Rather than getting hung-up on the boat, ask the right questions beforehand and see if the agency starts steering you to their more expensive tours -- that's a good sign -- it means they may actually be able to provide what you want.

Some good questions to start with include: (though bear in mind the agent may just lie)
Do they take day-trippers and people heading to Cat Ba as was as the group?
Can the generator be heard from the rooms?
Does their deck furniture have cushions?
Is there a top deck you can relax on?

But our final conclusion may surprise you. Did we say we took three Ha Long Bay tours? Sorry, we lied. We decided to do the tour a fourth time -- on our own.

Doing Ha Long Bay on your own -- well worth the effort

Those day-trippers had the right idea. Make your way to Ha Long City on our own. We showed up at the pier at around 10:00, asked around among the tour operators hustling on the dock, did a little bargaining, and hitched a ride on a tour boat for 80,000 dong per person. There are no hydrofoils or fast boats from Ha Long City to Cat Ba anyway, so you might as well take a tour boat, and it really is a great way to see the bay.

We were once again on a lousy budget junk, but who cares, we weren't spending the night on it! We could have bought lunch on the boat, but instead we just brought along some sandwiches of our own. The boat stopped for the cave tour, which we could have done for an extra 20,000 dong, but we were understandably a bit caved out at that point.

When the boat stopped for a swim, we all put on our suits and leapt from the top deck into the water -- something we missed out on during our rained-out budget tour, and the high-priced tour boats had no top decks. Now, that was fun. Hell, we'd pay five bucks just to do that alone.

We saw as much of beautiful Ha Long Bay as anyone really needs to see anyway, could have gone kayaking (again) if we wanted to, and arrived in Cat Ba in the evening, where we found a cheap room, hooked up with some other travellers for a sea food dinner, tipped a few glasses of bia hoi on the promenade, and no one woke us up at 07:00 because we had to check out and catch the tour boat back to Ha Long. We'd been to Cat Ba twice on tours, but this time we were able sample the seafood, the beaches, and the treks at our leisure.

For the trip back, a 45-minute, US$7 hydrofoil ride took us to Hai Phong, connecting to a cheap two-hour bus to Hanoi. For those of you who cringe at the idea of a package tour at any price, it's an option well-worth the extra expense and effort.

Travelfish -- your online guide to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam.

6

Quote

---

a crafts centre set up for victims of Agent Orange

---

An oft-perpetuated myth. These poor people are victims of other genetics, little or no neonatal care, and poor maternal nutrition much moreso than of Agent Orange, which was sprayed in the south, not in the north. Of course, some soldiers from the north who fought in the south may have been sprayed, and could have carried that sad legacy back to the north. Sorry to focus on this side comment from your report, but I don't like to see such broad inaccuracies tossed around. Not to deny the horrifying impact of the US chemical warfare, but the impact needs to be kept in perspective. One reason the US is being so difficult about making reparations (which they clearly must do) is because of this emotional tendency to blame AO for every birth defect, when the reality is quite different and includes the incredible lack of care for rural poor in Vietnam by the "socialist" government. 80% of the population is rural, yet 80% of health care services are offered in the cities.

Anyway, thanks for a great detailed report, very helpful.

Palin 2012

7

One note on your final recommendation: You make it sound so easy to do the Halong Bay tour independently, but your writer had done several group tours first and was well-familiar with the place and the system; also I assume your writer had some familiarity with Vietnam in general. For someone on a first-time visit to Vietnam, with time constraints and a low tolerance for added stress, this presents the independent option in an unfair light, making it seem easier than it really would be for a first-timer.

Palin 2012

8

Actual experiences, well written - thanks travelfish. This is by far the best Ha Long Bay report I've seen here, and I like your final conclusion about doing it yourself. Flying past Hai Phong always seems to me to be a wasted opportunity.

Your point about your fellow-trippers is a good one, and it can make such a difference. Unfortunately, it's hard to do anything about - if you arrive and find a bunch of either zombies or yobs, then it's probably too late to do anything.

How did you source those three tour operators? Did you try bargaining any of the prices? One of the frequent complaints here is that, particularly at the budget end, people complain about paying $40, and finding others on the tour who paid only $15 or whatever.

I'm also interested why you chose Buffalo, rather than the more obvious Handspan, as from what I see, Buffalo are trying to be a high end operator, but maybe have some distance to go, according to the mixed reports about them. Handspan's advantage still seems to be their boats (OK, I know that they don't technically own the boats they use), and I also believe they are still the only ones who have an ISO quality accreditation. And of course the really high end operator (as far as prices go, anyway) is the PS Emeraude.

If you want someone to check out the high end operators for you, let me know! : ))

"When life becomes too placid, it's time to go in search of faraway trouble."

9

Thanks for the feedback.

Mrmookie - that's a fair call on the Agent Orange craft thingy -- had not given that much of a thought -- tis a story about Ha Long bay tours not misleading craft shop names ;-)

Regarding the DIY aspect, I guess the tone is reflecting our opinion that despite the reputation otherwise, travelling sans-tour in Vietnam isn't anymore difficult nor uncomfortable than in other developing countries in the region -- a bit more effort, a bit more discomfort, and yes a bit more time and stress than taking a tour -- but that's what travelling is all about.

Personally I think the huge range of tours, despite their admittedly low price and convenience, are an aberration that Vietnam would be far better off without. IMO they encourage people to try to see far too much in too little time and concentrate the benefits to the Vietnamese in a few select destinations across the country..., but a discussion on this is better left for another thread!

kym_h, there was bargaining involved, and the prices listed above were what was actually paid. In picking the three operators, the researcher talked to an awful lot, and went with who he felt was offering a reasonable package and just "felt right". I'd say they're fairly representative of most operators in each bracket -- especially concerning the pitfalls of the budget one (overcrowding, poor food, dysfunctional kayak etc).

When looking for a higher-end operator, our initial plan had been to try out Handspan, but our man on the ground found their office staff to be really offhand and especially unhelpful (which very neatly gelled with my experience earlier in the year -- I walked out they were so rude to me) while Buffalo bent over backwards -- so we tried them -- no other reason.

In the end the story isn't so much about the particular operators but rather to give people an idea of what they may get for their money.

Checking out the PS Emeraude for a few days? -- mate, the day our expense accounts gets that large I'll be back to Vietnam!

Travelfish -- your online guide to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam.

10

Damn! Worth a try... I thought life was one big perk for all you travel writers - just flash your "travel journalist" badge, and watch the milk and honey flow! : ))

"When life becomes too placid, it's time to go in search of faraway trouble."

11

Excellent post that really clarifies and puts together the bits and pieces I had read on others' posts. I wish I had had the benefit of your post before leaving for Vietnam a few weeks earlier.

12

where is saigon cafe? Your article is the only thing that I can find that really refers to them. Have been looking at kangaroo cafe tours but have been reading really mixed reviews of them. WOuld refer to do the one you did.

It's never too late to be what you might have been ... or go where you might have gone!

13

thankyou for this info, we were to book our halong river cruise on the halong ginger which is about $440 aud for 2/1 night I am now worried it is so much more costly than the ones you have mentioned. It was an item in the escape section of the sunday mail and I thought this was a great deal and sounds very upmarket but if we can get something half that price it would be great. But now I am worried we won't get the experience we are expecting on the ginger? Have you had any dealing with this company? kim