Thorn Tree travel forum

1

Please don't do this. Either now or in a year's time. Tummy bugs would be the least of your problems.

I don't have the reference to hand, but even the council for homeopathy advises that travellers should NOT rely on homeopathy for tropical illnesses. If as an adult you're prepared to risk it, that's one thing. On behalf of a child - well it's plain irresponsible. Your child should have the vaccinations.

Kashgar lies where the maps in people's minds dissolve.

2

I would try posting this on the health branch, where you are likely to find more people with knowledge in this area.

Kashgar lies where the maps in people's minds dissolve.

3

sorry... not to vaccinate a child is irresponsibel even if you don't travel! but this is your decision...

there are vaccinations we can discuss about e.g. measles and other children-deseases. there you can profit from the responsible parents who vaccinate their children so the chance is small your child will get it in kindergarden. I can tell you as a doctor, that 1 of 100 children with measles gets en encephalities and 1 of 1000 dies...

but there is no discussion about the tetanus vaccination! tetanus is everywhere and you don't profit from the vaccinated people, if you are unlucky, a small injury is enouth to get it, then it is a terrible battle till you die. please vaccinate your child at least against tetanus.

for india you need beside the normal vaccinations: measles, rubella, mumps, tetanus, diphterie, haemophilus influenza, etc... also the special ones: hepatitis B (and A, which is not so importand for the child, but for you, because for adults the hepatitis A can be very serious) and rabies.

malaria: there are no homeopatics for the malaria, you have to take the prophilaxis if you travel north of goa, in the south the emergency-medication should be enouth.

homeopatics are great for a cough, stomach ake, and menstruation-trouble, but not for tropical diseas.

as a doctor and mother I can't recomend you a travel to india without vaccinations and without malariaprophylaxis... which is a pity because India is one of my favorit travel-countries.

ps: there is about one billion of dogs and monkeys infected with rabies in india. if you get bitten and you are not vaccinated you have 24h to get the anti-serum, which can be a real great problem in india. without the anti-serum 100% die on rabies.

it's not better - it's not worse - it's just different.

4

I am a mother of an infant and i believe in natural healing as well. my parents used herbal remedies with me. i am not as familiar with homepathy, but started to learn about it throughout my pregnancy and used it with great success throughout my childbirth and postpardum healing. i want to say that i support your choice to not vaccinate. many people are uneductated and unaware of the horrible things that vaccinations can bring on. i am not an extremest and i am very open minded, but i wish that you would not attack their choice to not vaccinate their children. my son was born in our home, in water, with a midwife, he was not curcumsized or vaccinated and i am proud to share this. those of you that call this mother irresponsible need to do your research on a few things! peace, k

5

I don't usually post to this branch; I usually hang out on the Health Branch. However I received a PM asking me if I had any comments on this thread.

Decisions whether or not tho vaccinate are of course very personal and I will state right off that I am a firm believer in vaccination will also say that I have yet to see any data that demonstrates that a homeopathic remedy has successfully treated or prevented any disease.

If you choose to take an unvaccinated child to India, three are a couple of issues that I think you should look into and carefully consider. The first is polio. India is one of the few countries where polio is still a serious problem. In 2003, a WHO official noted "“Eighty-three per cent of all new polio cases are now found in India." I found a number of homeopathic remedies that were said to be effective against polio but I was unable to find any data showing the effectiveness of these remedies--only anecdotal reports that people who used them did not get polio.

India has the highest incidence of human rabies in the world--20,000-30,000 cases a year. Part of the problem is that adequate treatment is not always available. The problem is primarily due to feral dogs in urban areas. An 18 month old child is just ht right age to try to pat the "nice doggie" and to not tell Mommy that the doggie scratched her.

As for vaccination in general, the British Homeopathic Association says

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There are no proven homeopathic substitutes for immunization. Some people have suggested using ‘nosodes’ (homeopathic preparations of the ‘bugs’ which cause the diseases). There is currently no evidence that nosodes are effective in humans. Relying on nosodes instead of immunisation may create a false sense of security, since efficacy is not proven.

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With regards to malaria,, the British Homeopathic Association says

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The Faculty of Homeopathy, the professional body for doctors and other statutorily regulated healthcare professionals who integrate homeopathy into their practice, does not promote the use of homeopathy for the prevention of malaria.

It also supports steps to inform the public of the dangers of malaria and the need to follow government guidance. Last year the Faculty worked with the Health Protection Agency (HPA) on a statement for the HPA website

“Malaria is a serious and life-threatening disease and there is no published evidence to support the use of homeopathy in the prevention of malaria,” comments Dr Peter Fisher, a member of the Faculty of Homeopathy and Clinical Director of the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital. “The Faculty of Homeopathy recommends following the HPA guidelines.”

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Nutrax
The plural of anecdote is not data

6

Cheers to you Nutrax- to tale an unimmunized child to Sydney or even the outback is one thing. The vast majority of the people around your child will have had their shots, so the chances of bumping into any of the preventable diseases is greatly reduced. Not so in India, where the diseases are widspread, and many or most of the people at risk. This allows for rapid spread of many diseases.

A good friends of ours has her son in the hospital at the moment in terrible pain, and at risk of dying because of West Nile Disease- an illness that currently is not preventable nor fully treatable. She is frantic, and would give anything for her son just to stop hurting. Not even to mention the fear she has that he will die. Now imagine how much worse you would feel if your young child ended up in an Indian hospital with a horrible, painful, and potentially deadly disease that you could have prevented.

7

I travelled with my nearly 3 yr old to India last nothern winter for 3 months. I did not get any of the extra vaccinations for him; he has the general childhood vaccinations. I went to a homeopath and got some drops which were for malaria, thyphoid and for general stomach bugs. When I was at the clinic the woman told me that in her opinion I should not take him without the polio vaccination. She has travelled to India extensively over 30 years and is strongly against most vaccinationas she is a natural health practitioner.

Fortunately my son only had one day where he vomited and had loose bowel motions. I am not sure whether it was because of the drops or because I was super vigilant with him in regards of insect repellent, long clothes, washing hands, sanitizing gel, drinking water, fresh foods etc. I think for a 18 month child it would be more hard to keep hands clean or that they are not playing in dirty water etc. A stomach bug is small issue compared to thyphoid, cholera or malaria which many people get over there. ( I am not condoning either immunisation or natural remedies - I just like to cover all bases!)

Anyhow whatever you decide you will have a great time as we did. Kids are adored in India and we are returning this year for another 3 months.

8

You didn't get any EXTRA vaccinations. OP's child has not had ANY vaccinations. There is a huge difference.

9

Yes I totally agree with vaccinations.We have taken our children twice to India,one of the most valuable tips I picked up was to eat curd and drink lots of lassis,the curd will help to protect against tummy bugs,it certainly worked for us.Have a wonderful trip,we can't wait to go back.

10

For what its worth ......I have taken my kids (fully vaccinated and carrying medicines for almost everything) to SE Asia on a number of occasions. When they get sick over there it is not a pleasant experience even with something mild - let alone a serious disease.
and, sorry - I dont get it - what difference is a year likely to make?

11

Last time I was in Bangalore I read a sad story in the local paper. A six-year old had been bitten by a dog and the parents insisted on homeopathic treatment.

Well, it did not work. The boy died a horrible, horrible death. Needlessly.

12

My wife and I are firm believers in vaccination, particularly in areas of increased risk.

That asside, I think there are other important issues, one is first aid - Taking a first aid course is a very practical menas of providing yourself and family with additional knowledge and skills to deal with medical problems.

Also consider that many of the worst tropical diseases have initial symptoms that resemble common ailments from temperate climates - So chills and fevers should be taken directly to the hospital (International Hospitals).

As a general rule, if you are self administering any medicine to deal with an illness that has occurred, go straight to the nearest International Hospital.

keep in mind that loss of body fluids for children and infants can become extremely serious in very short periods of time - So don't wait, go to the hospital.

INSURANCE, INSURANCE, INSURANCE

And finally, keep an eye on everyone's healt in the first month or so after returning. Take any ailments to your GP and mention your recent trip to India.

"Hawkeye, your kisses are driving me crazy" - "Yes, and I'm only using one lip"

13

As a doctor, and a parent, I can tell you that when one's children are concerned....there is no "I think and I believe"....you have to look at facts!!! One of the many reasons for the reduction in childhood deaths in the western world is VACCINATION....whether you believe it or not!!! And the reason of children in the western world will not get sick, even if they are not vaccinated, is something called "herd immunity" which means that if your kid is the only one in school not vaccinated for measels....it is very improbable that he will get it because there is noone from whom to get it. That won't be the case in india. Vaccination is a very "homeopathic" thing when you think about it....you get a dead or inactive bug....inject it.....and you natural defences will do the trick

Don't be fooled by the false sense of security of living in the western world...surrounded by health vaccinated individuals. Most herbal remedies...especially in india, are a mixture of potentially dangerous drugs. Tabacco is a natural product....that doesn't make it healthy. So is cocaine and heroin. Modern medicine purifies and modulated drugs to make them effective and safe.

Don't play russian rulette with your kids!

14

Just to put in my $0.02

I work with a group of hospitals in North India. In one month of travelling around, we wound up going through areas where there were epidemics of measles, japanese encephalitis and cholera (twice). I've seen lots of people crippled by polio and many suffering from tetanus.

I appreciate that there are side effects to vaccines -- in the western world, the chances of getting the diseases they prevent are so low that you can make a point for not vaccinating. This isn't the case in a country like India where 10% of children don't live until their 5th birthday. If you've been vaccinated, you may be able to protect your children from those diseases naturally by breastfeeding the whole time you're over (hopefully you haven't stopped completely). We're getting our son vaccinated for everything as soon as he's old enough because of our location (the hospitals) where he'll be exposed to pretty much every bug out there, no matter how careful we are.

If you won't vaccinate, does this mean that you won't accept allopathic medication either? If so, I would recommend not coming to India. I've seen too many babies die because their parents wouldn't bring them to the hospital in time to save them (they show up too late or not at all). There are many other wonderful places in the world where your child's life won't be in danger without vaccinations or allopathic medicines.