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French pronunciation

Replies: 15 - Last Post: Aug 8, 2012 12:23 PM Last Post By: tony0001

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libbyh

libbyh avatar

Aug 4, 2012 2:52 PM
Posts:  2,412

French pronunciation

Grandchildren = les petits-enfants. Do you pronounce the 't' and/or the 's' in petits? I'm supposed to be teaching some seniors and ellision always confuses me.

NorthAmerican

NorthAmerican avatar

Aug 4, 2012 8:29 PM
Posts:  9,195

1

I'm not French, so I will likely be corrected, but I'd say something like lape-TEEZ-aw-FAW if "grandchildren" ended a statement. It's more complicated if "grandchildren" comes in the middle of a sentence, because the options are not to pronounce the final "s" (of "enfants"), to pronounce it as an "s," or to pronounce it as a "z." It depends on what word follows "grandchildren."

libbyh

libbyh avatar

Aug 4, 2012 9:09 PM
Posts:  2,412

2

Thanks. Not worried about the 's' on enfants, just the petits.

Verdana

Verdana avatar

Aug 4, 2012 9:24 PM
Posts:  4

3

In French, the liaison between a word with a consonant petitS) and a word with a vowel (enfants) makes a Z sound. Because you have an S at the end of the petit and a E at the beginning of enfants, you need to link the words together with the Z sound.

Pe-teeZ-on-fon

(I am a French teacher).

NorthAmerican

NorthAmerican avatar

Aug 4, 2012 9:30 PM
Posts:  9,195

4

The "s" on petits would be silent if you said "the little ones," les petits. I'd pronounce it lape-TEE.

In "the grandchildren," though, I think you would form a liaison, so it would be pronounced as I showed it above, lape-TEEZ-aw-FAW.

If I'm wrong on the liaison, a native French speaker may well be along to correct me.

WanderinWilco

WanderinWilco avatar

Aug 5, 2012 2:42 AM
Posts:  1,102

5

Lay p'teez-aw-faw is good enough with a nasal, silent, "n" on the aw.

Dave

libbyh

libbyh avatar

Aug 5, 2012 3:01 AM
Posts:  2,412

6

Great, thanks everyone. Hope to get the oldies talking about their grandchildren so thought I'd better get it right.

VinnyD

VinnyD avatar

Aug 5, 2012 12:54 PM
Posts:  32,309

7

I would have written the z with the next syllable. Leyp tee zã fã.

tony0001

tony0001 avatar

Aug 5, 2012 1:22 PM
Posts:  2,426

8

It's, in Paris, lay p'tzeez aawn...

caroinparis

caroinparis avatar

Aug 5, 2012 2:40 PM
Posts:  1

9

Whether you're talking about "the little ones" (les petits enfants) or "the grandchildren" (les petits-enfants), you'd pronounce it exactly the same way, with a "zzzzz" in between :)
(I'm French)

NorthAmerican

NorthAmerican avatar

Aug 5, 2012 2:45 PM
Posts:  9,195

10

My "silent s" on petits at #4 assumed that someone had said "les petits," not "les petits enfants." Is "les petits" incorrect? It has been more than 50 years since I studied French, so maybe I'm confusing French usage with something I learned about another language.

bjd

bjd avatar

Aug 6, 2012 12:25 AM
Posts:  1,987

11

Indeed, NAmerican -- if you say only "les petits", you wouldn't pronounce the final ts.

iviehoff

iviehoff avatar

Aug 6, 2012 3:56 AM
Posts:  1,664

12

However in the case of the famous French (formerly Belgian) mathematician, Jacques Tits, all four letters of his surname are pronounced.

bjd

bjd avatar

Aug 6, 2012 4:23 AM
Posts:  1,987

13

There are variations in French pronunciation according to geographical location, particularly for names of people or places. There is a village and lake not far from here called Nailloux, which most French would pronounce na-you. However, the real locals say na-youks.

NorthAmerican

NorthAmerican avatar

Aug 6, 2012 5:02 AM
Posts:  9,195

14

Re variations in pronunciation: I was traveling by train from Paris to Rome by train, and a young French couple were sharing the compartment with me. The young man introduced the young woman as "ma mouche," if I'm not mistaken, and only smiled when I didn't understand. My guess is that they weren't married and that the word meant something more than "fly." In any event, I couldn't understand the very first question the young woman asked me, and when two tries failed to make clear what she wanted to know, she asked, very slowly, "Jusqu'où allez vous?" I don't know if she had asked the same exact question before, but at a normal pace, or if it was her accent. She said it was her accent; she was from Marseille.
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