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Time in xCanada after your initial entry into the xUS is included in your 90 days. It doesn't matter if you are going for a few days to visit, or 6 months to work. It also doesn't matter if you leave from xCanada, or come back to the xUS to leave. The total time must be 90 days or less.
Read this link from teh embassin in xCanberra (and it applies to all VWP nationalities).
What you plan would mean, by rule, that you overstayed your visit to the xUS, a breach of your entry via the VWP. Violating the terms of the VWP renders you ineligible to use it again.
If you never plan to come back to the xUS, it's no problem. If you do, it's potentially a large problem.
So to answer your question, yes, it's possible, but you may screw yourself in the process.
If you are out of status for longer than 180 days, you cannot enter the US for 3 years. If it's over a year, the ban is 10 years. There is a way to demonstrate after the fact, that you did indeed return to England before the 180 days was up. But that won't negate the need for a full visa.
If you never, ever plan to set foot in the US again, not even for an airport transit, then you have no problem. Otherwise, yes, you have a problem.
However, if you can arrange your trip so that you go to Canada first, directly from England, no stop in the US, then the 90-day clock will not start until you set foot on US soil.
If you decide to get a full visa now, then there is no issue. The B2 tourist visa is usually good for multiple entry over 10 years. On each entry, you usually be granted a stay of 180 days.
The rule is actually that you must have an onward ticket to somewhere that is not Canada, Mexico, or adjacent islands The site notes that Cuba is not always treated as an adjacent island. For the purposes of the Visa Waiver, it is an adjacent island.
You could go to some place in Central America. However, entry into the US is always at the discretion of the immigration official. the official might view two days in Costa Rica as a "visa run" and deny you entry. Or might let you in. If you fly from Costa Rica to Canada without transiting the US, you'd be fine.
edited to add: I just checked for the heck of it. Air Canada flies nonstop from Costa Rica to Toronto.
Edited by: nutraxfornerves
{snicker} That site you linked to has a very interesting spelling of "Montserrat."
--M.
If you get around that, I think you'd be fine. Posters above are correct in theory, but in practice, it's not that strict. I've heard of tons of people who go to Canada or Mexico for a long time and include a stop in the US and this rarely seems to result in problems. It's very popular for Swedes for example to go to Canada for "work and travel" and many of them cross the border into US at one point or another, yet I've never heard of anyone getting a US visa or running into trouble.
I have myself flown into the US with only an onward flight to Mexico without problem, I have also lived in Mexico for 6 months during which I visited the US multiple times and each time I'd get another 90 days although I never left North America, I have also left the US without handing in my I-94 stub and without mailing it in, this has not caused any issues at all for me and after all of that I was still eligible for the VWP.
So the answer to your first question is YES, it is definitely possible, although it carries a small risk that you might want to avoid if you can.
And it does all seem rather bureaucratic ... that if you wish to visit Canada for a while after visiting the US (no matter how briefly) then the VWP doesn't work for you. You would think in these days of clever databases, that as you depart the US for other parts of North America, this could be noted as conditional (and lawful) exit, and then when you depart North America altogether, a lawful final exit can be recorded, so there is no threat to your ability to use the VWP in the future. Oh well.
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1
Yes you can do that, with a valid visa or visa waiver for Canada ... the 90-Day Rule (and the North American exclusion zone) only applies if you wished to return to the US after spending time in Canada - in which case the Canada time is counted in your 90-Day VWP allocation. No worries.3
#1 is wrong.Time in xCanada after your initial entry into the xUS is included in your 90 days. It doesn't matter if you are going for a few days to visit, or 6 months to work. It also doesn't matter if you leave from xCanada, or come back to the xUS to leave. The total time must be 90 days or less.
Read this link from teh embassin in xCanberra (and it applies to all VWP nationalities).
What you plan would mean, by rule, that you overstayed your visit to the xUS, a breach of your entry via the VWP. Violating the terms of the VWP renders you ineligible to use it again.
If you never plan to come back to the xUS, it's no problem. If you do, it's potentially a large problem.
So to answer your question, yes, it's possible, but you may screw yourself in the process.
4
Let me elaborate. When you depart the US for Canada, your departure from the US is not recorded. You are still on the books (or rather, in the computer) as being in the US on a Visa Waiver. Once 90 days has passed, you are now listed as having overstayed, called being "out of status." Once you are on the books as having overstayed, you can never use the Visa Waiver Program again; you need a full visa. You will need a full visa even if all you plan to do is transit the US on the way to somewhere else, yes, even for a two-hour layover in a US airport.If you are out of status for longer than 180 days, you cannot enter the US for 3 years. If it's over a year, the ban is 10 years. There is a way to demonstrate after the fact, that you did indeed return to England before the 180 days was up. But that won't negate the need for a full visa.
If you never, ever plan to set foot in the US again, not even for an airport transit, then you have no problem. Otherwise, yes, you have a problem.
However, if you can arrange your trip so that you go to Canada first, directly from England, no stop in the US, then the 90-day clock will not start until you set foot on US soil.
If you decide to get a full visa now, then there is no issue. The B2 tourist visa is usually good for multiple entry over 10 years. On each entry, you usually be granted a stay of 180 days.
5
OK, so then if it is not possible to continue straight into Canada, would a detour to somewhere that is neither Canada not Mexico resolve the issue? Meaning, for example, spend 90days in the US, fly out to somewhere like Puerto Rico for a couple of days and then from there fly into Canada?7
Puerto Rico is part of the US.The rule is actually that you must have an onward ticket to somewhere that is not Canada, Mexico, or adjacent islands The site notes that Cuba is not always treated as an adjacent island. For the purposes of the Visa Waiver, it is an adjacent island.
You could go to some place in Central America. However, entry into the US is always at the discretion of the immigration official. the official might view two days in Costa Rica as a "visa run" and deny you entry. Or might let you in. If you fly from Costa Rica to Canada without transiting the US, you'd be fine.
edited to add: I just checked for the heck of it. Air Canada flies nonstop from Costa Rica to Toronto.
Edited by: nutraxfornerves
10
or adjacent islands
{snicker} That site you linked to has a very interesting spelling of "Montserrat."
--M.
11
In theory, this will be a problem. In practice, one of the larger problems might be just getting on the flight in England. If you don't have a return/onward ticket within 90 days, you could be denied boarding.If you get around that, I think you'd be fine. Posters above are correct in theory, but in practice, it's not that strict. I've heard of tons of people who go to Canada or Mexico for a long time and include a stop in the US and this rarely seems to result in problems. It's very popular for Swedes for example to go to Canada for "work and travel" and many of them cross the border into US at one point or another, yet I've never heard of anyone getting a US visa or running into trouble.
I have myself flown into the US with only an onward flight to Mexico without problem, I have also lived in Mexico for 6 months during which I visited the US multiple times and each time I'd get another 90 days although I never left North America, I have also left the US without handing in my I-94 stub and without mailing it in, this has not caused any issues at all for me and after all of that I was still eligible for the VWP.
So the answer to your first question is YES, it is definitely possible, although it carries a small risk that you might want to avoid if you can.
13
A thousand pardons ... but at least my errant post elicited the correct answer!And it does all seem rather bureaucratic ... that if you wish to visit Canada for a while after visiting the US (no matter how briefly) then the VWP doesn't work for you. You would think in these days of clever databases, that as you depart the US for other parts of North America, this could be noted as conditional (and lawful) exit, and then when you depart North America altogether, a lawful final exit can be recorded, so there is no threat to your ability to use the VWP in the future. Oh well.
14
When flying out, this could easily be recorded, but when leaving overland it's more problematic. There are no checks on the US side to enter Canada if I remember correctly, and there are no checks on either side when entering Mexico. Implementing that would be a huge huge deal. Nevertheless, I find it quite surprising that it hasn't been done, since most other countries in the world like to keep track of both when people arrive and leave. The way it is now, it could for example be exploited by someone who has overstayed their visa waiver: just sneak into Mexico and fly home from there (without landing in the US).ADVERTISEMENT
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