Do residence permits exist without working permit attached?
Replies: 29 - Last Post: May 29, 2012 8:52 AM Last Post By: catw
Jan 13, 2012 2:15 AM
15I think you need to realize that Israel is known for having one of the worst bureaucracies in the world. The different ministries and administration often disagree with each other. This is one of the most common complaints of Jews who make aliyah.
Jan 13, 2012 6:14 AM
16i'm realising that you are serious about the possibility of moving here, therefore i am yet more surprised that you are willing to leave the job of fact-finding about your future to a travel forum of people you have never met (nice and helpful as we may be). i urge you to follow advice and contact a professional - like the immigration lawyers to whom you've been referred.
Jan 14, 2012 8:32 AM
The wealth of precise and objective information you regularly endow upon us never ceases to amaze me.
I especially enjoy the fact that this information is always backed up with facts, links and a complete list of sources.
I would like to apologize on behalf of the rest of us who never take the time to research the topics at hand and only use biased generalizations and oversimplifications.
We are lucky to be quenching our thirst from your well of knowledge.
Jan 16, 2012 12:16 AM
18Amirico, even officials at the Interior Ministry don't always know which rules they should apply. It's one of the worst bureaucracies in the country. The difficulties faced by people who made aliyah because of the Ministry's bureacracy are covered in the press all the time. Some rules are published, some not, which makes it even more difficult.
Jan 16, 2012 1:02 AM
Jan 16, 2012 1:04 PM
May 21, 2012 2:07 PM
21Just to make things clear. Steps I have taken before posting this topic:
1) Contact the Israeli embassy in both my native country, country of residence and another country I lived in before. Neither of the embassy staff knew the answer and refered to the Ministry of Interior. In one case I even took a holiday to walk into the embassy, hoping to get more info than per phone. But once arrived at the embassy, the staff said they didn't know. Frustrating because isn't an embassy supposed to represent the country and thus know their own laws? But anyway, three Israeli embassies and no response.
2) I contacted several companies that needed Dutch speakers with additional languages. Neither of them knew how to apply for working permits for non-jews wishing to reside in Israel.
3) I contacted one law firm but they said they only responded to Jews wishing to make aliyah. Even though they, as a law firm specialised in immigration to Israel (yes, I carefully picked whom to contact) should know the rules of immigration for both Jews and non-Jews. I had the feeling they were not really keen on helping out but anyways, they said they didn't know.
4) I contacted the Jewish Agency in the hope they knew the rules for both jews and non-jews. They said they however were not qualified and didn't dare to provide info since "rules change often and we deal only with Jews wishing to make aliyah"
5) I contacted two rabbi's. I must say they were amongst the friendliest and most helpful of them all. One of them promised to ask around but sadly enough none of his connections knew any legal way for non-jews to get into the country unless having a rare degree or a jewish spouse. But at least this rabbi was really trying to help, which I appreciated a lot. If only the embassies were equally helpful :) The second rabbi was a bit more reluctant but seemed to simply not know.
6) I called the kibbutz associations but realising they were only aware of the rules for kibbutzim (which makes sense but trying cannot do harm) they said they couldn't provide accurate info.
7) Only after all those attempts I started asking around on internet forums specifically about Israel. Because neither embassies, Jewish Agency, rabbi's and one law firm knew the answers. Oh yes, on one forum (which I used because the lack of response of official organisations was making it clear asking regular folks would maybe be a help) one guy literally said "the only loophole for you is seducing a nice Jewish lady". I thought it was sarcasm first but then realised it was probably intended without any irony whatsoever.
On top of the above, I also contacted some NGOs working in the West Bank, hoping that maybe from there it would be easier to make connections to get into Israel proper. The NGOs however mainly recruited nurses, doctors and engineers, and they didn't dare to make statements about other legal issues.
So I think I did do my asking around before seeking advice on forums :)
Also, my situation changed in that way that I am now having an income from own country while however possible to live abroad. This would make an Israeli employer no longer necessary and I could prove the income from my native country would make me not relying on the Israeli state. However, that doesn't guarantee that you'd be issued a legal residence permit just because you are self-reliant financially.
Some said I'd better convert but then I also object to lying about my (lack of) religious believes and abusing a legal system. That would be unfair to the country and its people. The only form of Judaism an atheist could qualify for is Humanistic Judaism which is not about the Jewish religion but about adopting Jewish culture as your own regardless about your believes in god. However, I doubt the Israeli state would accept this form of Judaism (unlike Reform Judaism and Liberal Judaism which qualify for Aliyah, however those require explicit belief in the Jewish religion before you could convert)
May 21, 2012 4:46 PM
It seems you're talking this issue seriously and I'm sorry it still hasn't worked out.
On a practical note, you can try contacting more law firms (one couldn't help, others could).
IF you have a profile on linkedin, you can find groups of Israelis working in the same field as yourself. Maybe you can get info there and build your Israeli network at the same time.
Another longshot is to write to the owners of this hostel: http://www.shelterhostel.com/
The owners, John and his wife Judi, are non Jews living and working in Israel. If you're an atheist you point of view will be very different from their's but it can't hurt to drop them a line.
If your budget will allow it, I think the best thing you can do is come to Israel for a few weeks. You'll get a 3 month visa and have lots of time to have fun in the sun but also stand in line with Israelis at the Ministry of the Interior, meet with a few immigration lawyers, scout out possible apartments (in things work out), possible business opportunities (if relevant) eyc.
May 21, 2012 10:14 PM
23To add to what I wrote in #13:
There is no such thing as a 'temporary' residency visa. Permanent residency visas are issued under very specific circumstances such as when a non-Jew marries an Israeli or to someone who makes Aliya, is eligible for citizenship, but refuses it so as not to jeopardize their other citizenship.
The A5 visa exists for unusual and specific cases in which Israel has to/wants to issue a 'temporary residency' visa to someone, but he/she does not fall under one of the other categories. From what you have written above, you do not fall into this category. Therefore, IMHO, your only choice is the standard 3-month tourist visa which you must renew every 3 months or, if the Ministry of Interior will not renew it, leave the country every 3 months and get a new visa.
Good luck, and I hope you prove me wrong. :)
May 21, 2012 11:42 PM
May 22, 2012 11:28 AM
25PS to post nr 22: I started studying Hebrew too. While I mastered the alphabet completely, after 8 months of studying my grammar and vocabulary still need improvement. But I'm lucky to have a great teacher who is really helpful. Obviously it'll take a 2 or 3 years of classes before you can say you are somewhat near fluent, but I learn new things each class.
Reason for the studying Hebrew is of course the fascination for Israel and the language is part of that, it's such a lovely language and the alphabet is pure art. But of course, I also hope learning Hebrew maybe slightly improve my chances to get into Israel legally. (although even if that wouldn't work out, learning a language is never waste of time)
אנִ׳ לֹמֵד עִ׳בר׳ת
Do correct me if I'd be wrong, gents :)
I am well aware the odds of getting into Israel by learning Hebrew may be slim. Also, where I live there's no such thing as Ulpans with intensive courses. The best you can get is a few hours per week. But as said, I enjoy it a lot and who knows it'll be helpful someday?
עִֹד לֹ אבדַח תִ׳קבַתֵ׳נֻ
May 23, 2012 9:00 PM
May 23, 2012 10:23 PM
May 29, 2012 5:29 AM
28Gate2Home.com has some good Hebrew virtual keyboard but it misses the dots and accents to indicate the "A/E/I/O/U" sounds. Faireal has a great keyboard with all dots and accents you wish, but there a few regular characters from the alefbet are missing. I would need to get a real Hebrew keyboard because indeed it's quite difficult to type as it should when relying on virtual keyboards. Most are not entirely perfect by far.
Anyway, don't forget I started this course a 9 months ago so keep in mind you're talking to a relatively new student ; we don't have intensive classes like they exist in Israel (eg Ulpan) here so we have to do with a couple of hours weekly. Also, the hand-written Hebrew is a tiny bit easier than the typed Hebrew IMO although I try to exercise on the latter.
If anyone knows a good Hebrew letter generator, do let me know because the ones I found all miss a few characters or accents. Who knows the embassies may want to respond my questions more detailed if I'd write them in Hebrew, at least they'd see I'm determined to chase this dream ;)
May 29, 2012 8:52 AM
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