Thomas Kohnstamm and our guidebooks ... - Thorn Tree travel forum

Thomas Kohnstamm and our guidebooks

Replies: 90 - Last Post: 26-Jul-2008 20:10 Last Post By: dotravel

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Posted
14-Apr-2008 18:38
by: geekgal

Posts: 497
Registered: 26/03/08

Thomas Kohnstamm and our guidebooks

A message from Piers Pickard, Guidebook Publisher:

As expected, this issue has stimulated a lot of varying views, including those from you, our Thorn Tree community. It's good to hear your thoughts. We understand you're not all going to be supporters, but I hope you know our intention is always to do the best thing by travellers. There has been some inaccurate information filtering through the media, so I'd just encourage you to check out our statement here if you're interested in the details.

"The difficulty with this conversation is that it's very different from most of the ones I've had of late. Which, as I explained, have mostly been with trees." ~ Douglas Adams

Posted
14-Apr-2008 20:16
by: ngapalibeach

Posts: 1,514
Registered: 15/07/02

1

Is it possible to add a link to this forum with LP's reply?
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/about/thomas_kohnstamm.cfm

Posted
14-Apr-2008 21:36
by: callippo

Posts: 6,304
Registered: 12/07/04

2

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7346101.stm

here's the BBC's - which owns 75% of Lonely Planet - coverage of the story.

BBC Radio Five Live also interviewed him this morning, excerpts from the interview will be cropping up throughout today's news bulletins, a specifically during the 16-19.00 GMT Drive Time' programme and also it will probably be covered on the BBC's Radio 4 PM programme which runs from 17-18.00 GMT.

if anyone finds an audio or video link giving Mr Kohnstamm's side of the story in his own words, it'd be great if somebody could supply it. Meanwhile the BBC interview will crop up throughout today's bulletins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/

Posted
14-Apr-2008 21:46
by: JackieNajalack

Posts: 1
Registered: 14/04/08

3

We have numerous LPs and Rough Guides, and Kohnstamm's concept for an expose sounds interesting, but if HIS book is full of lies, which it seems that it might be, fuggedaboutit. If his LP contributions were bogus, why should anybody believe what he writes now?

Posted
15-Apr-2008 00:52
by: EdamEdam

Posts: 4
Registered: 15/04/08

4

Here's a BBC Mundo article about it (in Spanish)http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/business/newsid_7346000/7346209.stm

Note that Lonely Planet is owned by the BBC

Posted
15-Apr-2008 02:36
by: E_Armand

Posts: 3,185
Registered: 06/01/01

5

I'm a harsh critic of f'ups that impact me or things I care about. I haven't withheld criticism of LP or TT in the past, nor will I in the future.

But I find this brouhaha a non-story. I don't wish that LP would "just ignore it," but rather laugh & mock it away. Or take advantage for free advertising. Can you get a smart alec spokesman to exchange any volleys in the press? Hordes of LP groupies waving books in silent protest at Kuntsdamm's book events? A statement from the Wheelers which actors they'd prefer representing in the film roles ? Run with it, babe! You've got a campaign to run, and it smells like profit if you can turn it right...

Seriously, if LP wants to do some serious 'soul-searching,' poll your readership (the real travel experts) on all of your existing titles, and systematically overhaul those books (based on market realities, i.e. best-selling, most popular, prime destinations.) Based on user votes, the overhaul could incorporate and declare any and all new policies - trial or otherwise - on new editions. F- damage control, look at this as an opportunity to innovate.

Necessity is the mother of invention. Now's the time to make changes, whether you like it or not.

Havana Maps for Mobiles

Posted
15-Apr-2008 02:44
by: montyman

Posts: 4,171
Registered: 09/05/03

6

INCREDULOUS
Who is Thomas kohnstamm anyway? all you do is add to his infamy, by doing this you just add to his credibility, like ol quack quack wossisname, greenw00d and his Burma campaign.

montyman St East Asia , montyman2008 on flikr , montyman in Europe, Ukraine, Estonia ,Latvia,Berlin

Posted
15-Apr-2008 02:54
by: montyman

Posts: 4,171
Registered: 09/05/03

7

Until today I'd never heard of him wossisname *jontomas Con-n-stampmefeet, bit like that Munchausen chappie with same syndrome
Who is Thomas Kohnstamm

montyman St East Asia , montyman2008 on flikr , montyman in Europe, Ukraine, Estonia ,Latvia,Berlin

Posted
15-Apr-2008 03:54
by: Ribeira_Sacra

Posts: 1,344
Registered: 05/08/05

8

This is not the only case of where the writer has not been to the places they write about. I know of one travel book author and one newspaper journalist (travel section) who has not been there, done that and got the tee shirt.
So to be honest I am personally not shocked at this news.

Ribeirasacra, Galicia
A Taste of Galician wine

Posted
15-Apr-2008 04:24
by: applenpie

Posts: 196
Registered: 28/06/07

9

Shame on BBC and LP for their censorship. Where is democracy and free speech?

Why BBC and LP removed all the embarrassing posts from various branches of TT and concealed these posts 3 levels down in an obscure place at the bottom of TT forum?

BBC and LP's blatant hypocrisy and censorship on display.

Posted
15-Apr-2008 04:38
by: E_Armand

Posts: 3,185
Registered: 06/01/01

10

Let's see:

a) This is privately-owned website, not a "democracy" nor a "free speech forum."
b) There are Terms of Use - by posting we all agree to abide by those. Moving or editing or deleting posts is solely LP's discretion - it's clearly spelled out.
c) The posts have been moved not removed, consolidated not concealed, visible in the appropriate place.

I see no "hypocrisy" at all, and the claim for censorship is equally hysterical. All About Thorntree/ About LP topics have been moved here many, many times in the past - your ignorance of that fact doesnt validate your gripe. Sorry!

Havana Maps for Mobiles

Posted
15-Apr-2008 05:08
by: natwest

Posts: 11
Registered: 26/11/07

11

I felt totally deceived by LP upon hearing the latest news.
I always suspect whether it is possible to maintain LP's impartiality policy and giving fair reviews to all the hotels and restaurants. Well..... it seems we have the answer today.

I have no doubt that LP and other guidebooks underpay their authors, cos cost is a major constraint in every business. Isn't it? So I was wondering how they can say all their authors do not accept money, gifts or favours from any source. Integrity and honesty are easier said than done!

"It isn't commonplace, because we have no evidence that the things that he alleges that he did working on the Brazil 5 guide... applied to other books," Stephen Palmer, the chief executive of Lonely Planet, told BBC News.

I thought Kohnstamm was working on this Colombian guide, which he never goes in the first place. So why was the Colombian guide not mentioned.

Lonely Planet says it has reviewed the books that Mr Kohnstamm contributed to but has so far found no inaccuracies.

I think it is LP's responsibility to prove us that its guidebooks are accurate, and ALL authors have followed company policy of impartiality (this word is one of the main reasons why people pay so much more money to buy LP, other than any guidebook) U need to show us the proof, e.g. photos, receipts, clips. Saying "we have faith in our authors" is no longer enough in this world of ours.

All LP is counter arguing is that the alleged edition is no longer in print, but that doesn't mean they have not deceived consumers in the past edition.

3. Thomas has claimed that he was not paid enough to travel to Colombia when he was employed as an author on our Colombia guide. The fact is that Thomas was not employed as an on-the-ground author on that guidebook. This means that he did not write any reviews - of places or establishments - in this book. His contribution was to the introductory chapter covering history, culture, food and drink and environment. Two on-the-ground authors wrote the reviews for the Colombia guide.

Let's hope that chick who works as an intern in the Colombian Consulate has supplied the correct info on the introductory chapter covering history, culture, food and drink and environment.
I mean didn't LP really check whether he has really been to the country or not, say, check his passport for stamps. Despite Thomas was not employed as an on-the-ground author on that guidebook, but that does not mean he does not need to travel to that country in order to write something about their history, culture, food and drink and environment.

We're confident that the vast majority of our information is sound and accurate. Where we find any problems, we'll make it right by providing new content. We know that you place a huge amount of trust in us, and we will live up to that trust.

Yeah, OK, I'll listen to this apology-talk just for now.

Thank you Lonely Planet, what u have been doing is nothing short of deceiving us, the consumers.

Posted
15-Apr-2008 05:17
by: travelbert

Posts: 22
Registered: 28/01/07

12

I think it is indeed disturbing how Lonely Planet handles this incident. While the website here reads like we will check and see what is inaccurate, all things published by BBC (75% owner of LP) say all is fine, nothing inaccurate. I am a faithful follower of Lonely Planet on many many travels but the Venezuela book was the only one I complained about back in December 2007! Quote fom my email to Adam Stanford: "Do your work, Thomas Kohnstamm!" So don´t tell you didn´t know! Lonely Planet´s way of handling this scandal makes me wonder what more there is to discover. Is it a bee´s nest and someone just hit it?

Posted
15-Apr-2008 05:20
by: E_Armand

Posts: 3,185
Registered: 06/01/01

13

I don't "get" this deception whine. Maybe I'm just a jaded American, or trained to read the fine-print, or working in an industry (finance) where consumers actually & really get screwed - where it counts, in their retirement savings! - but this tut-tutting and angry shaming strikes me as patently absurd.

"What?! Disney didnt tell you that Mickey Mouse isnt real?!" Arent you more concerned what's in that Whopper, anyway?

There's a total lack of perspective, here.

Regarding the Colombia book, and to counter this whinging, LP should announce an Experimental Edition, a build-it-yourselves guide that's fully transparent (a la wikitravel) and haggled over by the Opinionoids. Let's see how much better it is - and document the ordeal.

A radical project might be fun, enlightening and even superior-product. Why not take a chance, doing something completely different? Here's the golden opportunity!

Havana Maps for Mobiles

Posted
15-Apr-2008 12:45
by: silvanocat

Posts: 851
Registered: 20/02/02

14

"The fact is that Thomas was not employed as an on-the-ground author on that guidebook. This means that he did not write any reviews - of places or establishments - in this book. His contribution was to the introductory chapter covering history, culture, food and drink and environment. Two on-the-ground authors wrote the reviews for the Colombia guide."

So Piers are you saying that it is ok to write about culture, food and drink and enviroment without having visited the place?

Are you going to review your other guidebooks? Twenty years ago the LP's had a such a just been there immediacy, and recently I had actually wondered to myself whether your writers had visited some of the places written about.

Hiding the posts about this in a new branch does not serve your cause.

Tahiti On A Budget --- Kayaking and Camping Palau

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